{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/86",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 86,
    "subject": "Silk Wrong; Saving the _Whorl_",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1997-02-11T09:23:20+00:00",
    "last": "1997-02-11T11:00:35+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0002-0130@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David_Lebling",
        "address": "david_lebling at avid.com"
      },
      "date": "1997-02-11T09:23:20+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Silk Wrong; Saving the _Whorl_",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "mantis,\n\nI'll have to do some more research if I'm to come up with a list. I\nthink what I was referring to was more Silk's habit, whenever anything\nhappens, of coming up with an immediate and facile explanation.\nSometimes, as you say, he is corrected, or corrects himself, but\nsometimes it just goes on by without comment.  One example with\nimmediate correction is his experience that we've been calling \"Pike's\nGhost,\" where he immediately assumes the black shape is Oreb.\n\nOne case that hit me on rereading is Silk's interpretation of his\nenlightenment.  It seemed clear to me from the wording and the content\nof his vision that his charge from the Outsider was to save the _Whorl_,\nbut he almost obsessively whittles that down to a charge to save his\nmanteion.  Only much, much later does he, in an almost surprised way,\ndecide that saving his manteion means saving the people of the quarter\nthe manteion serves, which is of course equivalent to saving the\n_Whorl_.  The explicit religious aspect of this is obvious; we are all\ncharged by the Outsider with saving the world, and such saving is to be\naccomplished by saving ourselves and our fellow humans, and through them\nthe world.\n\nIn fact, the more I think of it, the more I think that Silk's\nexplanations are often self-serving in a sense; the same way peoples\nresponses to religious challenges are often self-serving, and deflect\nthem from what was really wanted.\n\nAnother question (so this won't all be philosophy and ethics): Who saves\nthe rest of the _Whorl_?  Horn's appendix makes it clear that people\nfrom cities other than Viron made it to Blue. Who got them there? Did\nthe Outsider enlighten someone in each city? Auk's lander is the first\nto leave the _Whorl_. What's happening elsewhere? Why did Tartaros pick\nAuk of Viron, of all the Cargo? (That at least has a plausible\nexplanation.)\n\n     Dave\n     (david_lebling at avid.com)\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0002-0131@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jim Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "1997-02-11T11:00:35+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (whorl) Silk Wrong; Saving the _Whorl_",
      "in_reply_to": "<whorl-v0002-0130@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 09:23 AM 2/11/97 -0500, you wrote:\n\nOne case that hit me on rereading is Silk's interpretation of his\nenlightenment.  It seemed clear to me from the wording and the content\nof his vision that his charge from the Outsider was to save the _Whorl_,\nbut he almost obsessively whittles that down to a charge to save his\nmanteion.  Only much, much later does he, in an almost surprised way,\ndecide that saving his manteion means saving the people of the quarter\nthe manteion serves, which is of course equivalent to saving the\n_Whorl_.  The explicit religious aspect of this is obvious; we are all\ncharged by the Outsider with saving the world, and such saving is to be\naccomplished by saving ourselves and our fellow humans, and through them\nthe world.\n\nIn fact, the more I think of it, the more I think that Silk's\nexplanations are often self-serving in a sense; the same way peoples\nresponses to religious challenges are often self-serving, and deflect\nthem from what was really wanted."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "    Dave\n    (david_lebling at avid.com)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tIn both the Severian Quintet and in the Long Sun Quartet Wolfe gives us a\ncentral character who is slowly working his way out of a bad beginning. In\nSilk's case, it is idolatry. Slowly he comes to understand that the\nOutsider is the only real God, and all the rest are false. After that, he\ncomes to appreciate that even these false gods carry fragments of truth\nwith them.\n\tIdolatry is a major interest in many of Wolfe's works, but never more than\nhere.\n\tSilk's gradual understanding of the Outsider's command to him is part of\nthat process of illumination and deliverance from bondage.\n\nJames B. Jordan\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}