{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/867", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 867, "subject": "First impressions of IGJ (possible spoilers)", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "2000-07-23T23:40:50+00:00", "last": "2000-07-23T23:40:50+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2000-07-23T23:40:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) First impressions of IGJ (possible spoilers)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I finished _In Green's Jungles_ today. Wolfe is certainly is \nfull of surprises. All I can say is that I hope _Return to the Whorl_ \nis released with no more of a delay than there was between OBW and \nIGJ. It is really very difficult to make any judgement about the \nfirst two volumes in the absence of the third. Not to mention the \nfact that I'll have to read IGJ again before I will feel competent to \nmake too many definitive statements about it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:17 AM -0700 7/15/00, Adam Stephanides wrote:\n4. I found it harder to follow the story here than in OBW. This is\npartly because the plot is more complicated, partly because there is no\nstrong narrative thread like Horn's quest for Pajarocu in OBW, and\npartly for another reason which I'm afraid it might give too much away\nto reveal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting. I found it easier to follow IGJ than OBW. It seemed to \nme that the second volume was considerably less fragmentary than the \nfirst." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 2:37 AM +0000 7/21/00, Christopher Culver wrote:\n3) Horn tends to sound in several places like Alden Dennis Weer. I \nwonder if this is just because people who have died tend to think \nlike this in Wolfe's mind, or Wolfe is simply reusing a previous \nmode of narration." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that Weer is Wolfe's \"default voice.\" In my opinion, \nvirtually all of Wolfe's first person protagonists \"sound like\" Weer \nat one time or another, if they are allowed to talk long enough." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:19 PM -0700 7/22/00, Dan Rabin wrote:\nIt seems pretty daring to me that Wolfe builds up to the recognition \nscene between Horn/Silk and Auk and Chenille, and then yells \"Cut!\", \nonly confirming our suspicions in the conversation afterwards back \non Blue." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This doesn't seem daring to me at all, for Wolfe. \"It's what he does. \nIt's all he does!\" Wolfe's preferred method for dealing with pivotal \nscenes is to leave them out and then refer to them later briefly and \nfragmentarily." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:29 AM -0700 7/23/00, Adam Stephanides wrote:\nNow that we know how Horn got into Silk's body (assuming it is Silk's)\nthe question I asked about IGJ remains: why doesn't Horn know he's in\nSilk's body? Why doesn't he recognize whose body is in the grave\n(assuming it's the obvious person, whose name I'm hiding from accidental\nreaders of this post)? Even if he doesn't recognize Silk's body, didn't\nhe meet anyone on the Whorl who addressed him as Silk? Of course, maybe\nhe does know he's in Silk's body, and is hiding the fact from his\nreaders (while leaving obvious clues). But then why was he continuing\nthe search for Silk at the start of OBW?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree with Adam here completely. This is a real sticking point for \nme and I hope Wolfe resolves it satisfactorily. It seems very \n*unlikely* that the body Horn's spirit is put into is Silk, judging \nfrom the description in the text. But, if not, how does Horn get into \nSilk's body before he is shanghaied into becoming the Rajan of Gaon \n(if he actually inhabits Silk's body at all). Does he continue body \nhopping in _Return to the Whorl_?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Horn of OBW resembles the non-apotheosized Severian: someone who\nfeels strongly, suffers greatly, and is very human, to the point of\nbeing unsympathetic. The Horn of IGJ is much more like Silk in more\nthan a physical sense; he's clearly a good man, and a dispenser of\nwisdom and good counsel, while humbly insisting all the time that he is\nno such thing. I have to admit that as a protagonist I prefer the first\nmodel to the second." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree that the Horn that narrates OBW seems to be significantly \ndifferent from the Horn that narrates IGJ. This makes me wonder what \nhappened to cause the change. It seems to me that it may have \nsomething to do with the very odd section towards the very end of OBW \nwhere Horn's identity seems to become confused with Babbie's and Horn \nmeets the little boy and girl who are named Brother and Sister. I \nreadily admit that I didn't understand the section of OBW at all and \nthat I am disappointed that it wasn't explicated at all in IGJ." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "William Ansley\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }