{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/9", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 9, "subject": "narrative viewpoint in Long Sun", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1996-12-06T14:44:22+00:00", "last": "1996-12-20T06:33:27+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Cash", "address": "cash at convex.convex.com" }, "date": "1996-12-06T14:44:22+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) narrative viewpoint in Long Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One thing I found really frustrating with the end of Exodus was the\nrevelation that this has been Horn's narrative all along. This\nrevelation came as a complete surprise to me, and I couldn't help but\nfeel that it was a trick Wolfe sprung so that he could end the Book of\nthe Long Sun when he did. After all, if he narrows down the narrator's\nperspective, then he can't be blamed for not filling us in on details\nlike what became of Silk--Horn just doesn't know. \n\nI feel that writer really ought to drop some clues ahead of time about\nthis sort of thing. Did any of you notice any clues about Horn's role in\nthe earlier books? \n\nPeter " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. \n (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Adrian", "address": "cyd at rmii.com" }, "date": "1996-12-19T10:39:43+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) re: narrative viewpoint in Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Peter Cash \nSubject: (whorl) narrative viewpoint in Long Sun\nDate: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 14:44:22 \n\n\n[Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]\n\nOne thing I found really frustrating with the end of Exodus was the\nrevelation that this has been Horn's narrative all along. This\nrevelation came as a complete surprise to me, and I couldn't help but\nfeel that it was a trick Wolfe sprung so that he could end the Book of\nthe Long Sun when he did. After all, if he narrows down the narrator's\nperspective, then he can't be blamed for not filling us in on details\nlike what became of Silk--Horn just doesn't know. \n\nI feel that writer really ought to drop some clues ahead of time about\nthis sort of thing. Did any of you notice any clues about Horn's role in\nthe earlier books? \n\nPeter \n-- \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. \n (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I don't have the book with me so I can't give you a page number,\nbut Horn did give himself away earlier in Exodus. Go back to the meeting\nwhere Silk agreed to surrender to Potto, just before he was captured.\nThe line is something like \"Then I walked in.\"\n Nice little shock there. It definitely put a different edge\non the near-suicide scenes on the airship. I'm not sure whether I'm\nplaying tricks on myself or not (I'll have to read it again, and I\ncan't wait), but it seemed that that Silk's talk with Horn had a unique\ntone to it. A bit more depth, a little more confidence behind it than\nmost of the others, which Horn had to recreate from guesswork, instinct,\nand what witnesses survived the end of the Whorl.\n\n --adrian\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Doug Eigsti", "address": "douge at nti.com" }, "date": "1996-12-20T06:33:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) re: narrative viewpoint in Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Peter Cash \nSubject: (whorl) narrative viewpoint in Long Sun\nDate: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 14:44:22 \n\n\n[Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]\n\nOne thing I found really frustrating with the end of Exodus was the\nrevelation that this has been Horn's narrative all along. This\nrevelation came as a complete surprise to me, and I couldn't help but\nfeel that it was a trick Wolfe sprung so that he could end the Book of\nthe Long Sun when he did. After all, if he narrows down the narrator's\nperspective, then he can't be blamed for not filling us in on details\nlike what became of Silk--Horn just doesn't know. \n\nI feel that writer really ought to drop some clues ahead of time about\nthis sort of thing. Did any of you notice any clues about Horn's role in\nthe earlier books? \n\nPeter " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I don't have the book with me so I can't give you a page number,\nbut Horn did give himself away earlier in Exodus. Go back to the meeting\nwhere Silk agreed to surrender to Potto, just before he was captured.\nThe line is something like \"Then I walked in.\"\n Nice little shock there. It definitely put a different edge\non the near-suicide scenes on the airship. I'm not sure whether I'm\nplaying tricks on myself or not (I'll have to read it again, and I\ncan't wait), but it seemed that that Silk's talk with Horn had a unique\ntone to it. A bit more depth, a little more confidence behind it than\nmost of the others, which Horn had to recreate from guesswork, instinct,\nand what witnesses survived the end of the Whorl.\n\n --adrian" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Peter,\n\n\tI have yet to find Horn giving his naration away but it is notable\nthat Horn is mentioned in the first paragraph of NIGHTSIDE. The only other\ncharacters there are Silk and the strange doppelgangers Marble and Rose.\nWolfe is notorious for leaving only one clue to a mystery to be revealed\nlater. The relationship between Marble and Rose does not surface again in\nthe story until much later. Wolfe does nothing beyond that first paragraph\nto encourage the reader to connect these two characters until one has\nforgotten all, only to be reminded by the Torturer himself. Don't say I\nnever told you...\n\tI have heard this called the Loop-the-Lupine school of writing. \nOf which Wolfe is the founder and chief practitioner. Wolfe does not like\nto insult the reader by giving multiple clues. The reader either learns to\nlove it or stops reading Wolfe. His books are written for multiple\nreadings, for the reader we will be ten years from now. Each time through\none of his books leaves me with a unique feeling of, as Steve Martin would\nsay, \"vu-ja-de\", that I've never done this before. I know the frustration\nof missing key clues on the first pass, but I also know the joy of \nreading a Wolfe novel for the \"first time\" on the second iteration. \n\n=Doug=\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] } ] }