{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/943", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 943, "subject": "Clute's Non-Revelation", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2000-08-16T18:04:01+00:00", "last": "2000-08-21T23:40:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2000-08-16T18:04:01+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Clute's Non-Revelation", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for the vote of confidence, several of you. I have a thought\nabout Horn's eating habits, which certainly puzzled me too on first\nreading. It's awfully Wolfean. The fact is that the Horn body was\nsturdier, stockier and needed more food than the Silk body. Horn's\nhabits and appetites remain as they were, but he must consciously curb\nthem in his new body, or he would soon be overweight. But he DOES eat,\nunlike Fava, sweet little bean.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2000-08-19T17:25:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Clute's Non-Revelation", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 06:04 PM 8/16/2000 -0400, you wrote:\n\nThanks for the vote of confidence, several of you. I have a thought\nabout Horn's eating habits, which certainly puzzled me too on first\nreading. It's awfully Wolfean. The fact is that the Horn body was\nsturdier, stockier and needed more food than the Silk body. Horn's\nhabits and appetites remain as they were, but he must consciously curb\nthem in his new body, or he would soon be overweight. But he DOES eat,\nunlike Fava, sweet little bean.\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tIt's always interesting to agree with Alga! I'll repeat what I wrote\nbefore, in case it did not get through: Being on a kind of continual fast\nis what Silk does. Now that Horn is in Silk's body (as most of us assume),\nhe's got some of Silk's habits. \"Eucharistically\" (and Gattaca-like), he's\nliving off the body and blood of another, the quasi-messianic Silk. It's\naffecting him.\n\tAnd since Wolfe has put human-inhumi relations at the center of the\ntrilogy's concerns (by repeatedly calling attention to the mystery), it\nmakes much more sense to see Horn as a character learning about that\nmystery, and learning to implement it. Whatever it may be. He needs to be a\nhuman being for this to work. \n\tOf course, Wolfe can fool us all! But I'm very unconvinced of this\nhypothesis.\n\tNow, a bit more on the secret. I suggested being willing to die for\nothers, and specifically being willing to die for the inhumi, as the\nsecret. It has now been suggested that voluntarily giving them one's blood\nmight be the secret. \"Eucharistically,\" that boils down to the same kind of\nthing. And it makes good sense to me as a theory, for now anyway.\n\tFinally, I note that Horn tried to save Fava by giving her his warmth. But\nthat was not enough. Yet, it is a step along the say. Self-giving as the key. \n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "John Clute", "address": "jclute at cix.compulink.co.uk" }, "date": "2000-08-21T18:02:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Clute's Non-Revelation", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In-Reply-To: <200008211539.IAA19089 at lists1.best.com>\nPatera Nutria,\n Have just joined WHORL, and don't know etiquette within this \naugust Theatre, but thought I'd tie this to yours on Silk to indicate my \nintuition that you are probably (though, as you say) not absolutely \ncertainly right. That fasting is what Silk does escaped my memory, \ncertainly, when I was laying down a first _reading_ response to \n_In Green's Jungles_ . \n But to make it absolutely clear what _I_ was doing: no revelations \nwere being hoicked into view, certainly not at this stage: I was laying \ndown for readers far more general than WHORL's List some sense of the \npattern of the book: it was, implicitly, an invocation to read out in the \nopen.\n Oreb as Holy Spirit. Very fine. Especially if the bird, in human \nterms, could be defined as a giant paraclete.\n\nBest,\nJohn C\n \n \n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2000-08-21T14:56:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Clute's Non-Revelation", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:02 PM 8/21/2000 +0100, you wrote:\nIn-Reply-To: <200008211539.IAA19089 at lists1.best.com>\nPatera Nutria,\n Have just joined WHORL, and don't know etiquette within this \naugust Theatre, but thought I'd tie this to yours on Silk to indicate my \nintuition that you are probably (though, as you say) not absolutely \ncertainly right. That fasting is what Silk does escaped my memory, \ncertainly, when I was laying down a first _reading_ response to \n_In Green's Jungles_ . \n But to make it absolutely clear what _I_ was doing: no revelations \nwere being hoicked into view, certainly not at this stage: I was laying \ndown for readers far more general than WHORL's List some sense of the \npattern of the book: it was, implicitly, an invocation to read out in the \nopen.\n Oreb as Holy Spirit. Very fine. Especially if the bird, in human \nterms, could be defined as a giant paraclete.\n\nBest,\nJohn C" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanx. The discussion had gone way beyond your original short review!\n\nUsually, I'm just \"Nutria,\" but since I am ordained, I thought \"Patera\"\nwould be fun on occasion (and I thought it might annoy Alga!).\n\nPat. NUT!\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Patri10629", "address": "patri10629 at aol.com" }, "date": "2000-08-21T23:40:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Clute's Non-Revelation", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In a message dated 8/21/00 2:15:59 PM, jclute at cix.compulink.co.uk writes:\n\n<< Have just joined WHORL, and don't know etiquette within this \naugust Theatre, Oreb as Holy Spirit. Very fine. Especially if the \nbird, in human \nterms, could be defined as a giant paraclete." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dear John,\n\nA warm welcome to The Whorl which will benefit much from your learned \npresence.\n\nHowever, as acting officer of etiquette I find I must refer you to articles \n32 and 27 of the Whorl Code which jointly prohibit blantant punnage and any \nlibel of birds.\n\nBut, really, how could you have known?\n\nPatrick O'Leary\n\nAUTHOR OF:\nDOOR NUMBER THREE,\nTHE GIFT,\nOTHER VOICES, OTHER DOORS,\nTHE IMPOSSIBLE BIRD\n\nPatrick O'Leary's Home Page\nhttp://members.aol.com/patri10629/\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }