{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/959", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 959, "subject": "Limp biz (cut)", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2000-08-21T19:44:05+00:00", "last": "2000-08-23T12:07:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2000-08-21T19:44:05+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Limp biz (cut)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Patera Rat put forth (on another subject altogether):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(Yes, I know Oreb is also in Germanic mythology, as the limp also goes\nwith Claudius, etc." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That limp doesn't go just with Claudius. That limp is important to\nclassical mythology in general. There's Oedipus--\"swollen-foot\"--of the\ndire prophecy. There's Melampus--\"blackfoot,\" also a prophet. There's\nJason, who arrives wearing just one sandal, as was prophesied. There's\nsome other odd stuff about sandals, including the sandals of Theseus\n(under the stone) and the drag-footed lame Crane Dance and the prophetic\nfall that followed. Telephus was wounded in the left leg by Achilles,\nand we all know of Achilles and his heel. I cannot remember if Odin was\neventually lame, but I wouldn't be surprised, since Horn is certainly\nfixing to be Odin in his accoutrements. There's the Fisher King, wounded\nin the thigh.\n\nAnd there's Sev. And Silk. And Oreb (wing). Eventually (I'll bet; he's\nalready got a staff), Horn. And for the Crowleyites among us, there's\nPierce walking up Mount Randa with one black shoe and one brown shoe,\nfirst seen as a pilgrim in a shamanistic trance by Beau Brachman. Tres,\ntres Jason, IMO.\n\nOn another subject, Ian, mantis isn't putting you off--we did get pretty\nintense about Suzanne. If you read the earlier stuff and still have\nquestions, please ask them.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "John Clute", "address": "jclute at cix.compulink.co.uk" }, "date": "2000-08-22T12:27:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Limp biz (cut)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In-Reply-To: <200008212348.QAA22140 at lists1.best.com>\nMore thoughts on Oreb would be of great interest. And more thoughts on \n_why_ so many heroes are lame (see also everything Tim Powers ever \nwrote)--I know there is a body of theory regarding this, and for the \nmoment cannot properly nail it down in my head. What kind of boy or dwarf \nis Oreb on Green? Nutria's Christian typology is of course one line; but I \nthink Nutria himself assumes this to be only one pattern of meaning, \nthough maybe the central.\n Much of this material may have already been exposed here. Sorry if \nI'm disinterring a dead crow.\n\nBest,\nJohn C\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alastair Reynolds", "address": "areynold at estsa2.estec.esa.nl" }, "date": "2000-08-22T12:36:26+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Limp biz (cut)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John Clute wrote:\n\nIn-Reply-To: <200008212348.QAA22140 at lists1.best.com>\nMore thoughts on Oreb would be of great interest. And more thoughts on\n_why_ so many heroes are lame (see also everything Tim Powers ever\nwrote)--I know there is a body of theory regarding this, and for the\nmoment cannot properly nail it down in my head. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See also Mad Max!\n\nAl\n\n.\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mark millman", "address": "millman at us.ncipher.com" }, "date": "2000-08-23T12:07:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Limp biz (cut)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:44 PM 21-08-00 -0400, alga wrote:\nPatera Rat put forth (on another subject altogether):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "(Yes, I know Oreb is also in Germanic mythology, \nas the limp also goes with Claudius, etc." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That limp doesn't go just with Claudius. That limp is \nimportant to classical mythology in general. There's \nOedipus--\"swollen-foot\"--of the dire prophecy. There's \nMelampus--\"blackfoot,\" also a prophet. There's Jason, \nwho arrives wearing just one sandal, as was prophesied. \nThere's some other odd stuff about sandals, including the \nsandals of Theseus (under the stone) and the drag-footed \nlame Crane Dance and the prophetic fall that followed. \nTelephus was wounded in the left leg by Achilles, and we \nall know of Achilles and his heel. I cannot remember if \nOdin was eventually lame, but I wouldn't be surprised, \nsince Horn is certainly fixing to be Odin in his accoutre-\nments. There's the Fisher King, wounded in the thigh." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Odysseus, too, has a thigh wound, though it's old and healed \nand apparently doesn't cause him to limp. It does, however,\nserve to identify him to members of his household upon his\nreturn.\n\nI've been unable to find any reference to Odin's becoming \nlame or receiving a wound in his leg or foot. I did, however, \ncome across one interesting foot fact about Odin. During \nRagnarok, Odin is swallowed by Fenrir and dies. His son \nVidar avenges him by kicking Fenrir in the mouth with a giant \nshoe until the wolf's jaws are torn asunder--just one giant shoe, \nnot one of a pair. I suppose that could cause a limp.\n\nNacre\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }