{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/974", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 974, "subject": "Digest whorl.v011.n027", "messages": 6, "voices": 6, "first": "2000-08-24T10:10:21+00:00", "last": "2000-08-28T14:47:17+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roberson, John", "address": "robersonj at bek.com" }, "date": "2000-08-24T10:10:21+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) RE: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------\nFrom:\nwhorl-errors at lists.best.com[SMTP:whorl-errors at lists.best.com]\nReply To: \twhorl at lists.best.com\nSent: \tThursday, August 24, 2000 9:22 AM\nTo: \twhorl at lists.best.com\nSubject: \tDigest whorl.v011.n027" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\tSpectacled Bear wrote:\nThe Secret:\n\nThe speculations here about the secret of the inhumi being to do with\nwilling sacrifice are very interesting, but don't address Horn's assertion\nthat it could be used to reduce the inhumi to mindless animals, not better\nbut not worse than crocodiles. And how does that fit in with the general\ntheme that we ought to be *nice* to them? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tMy thoughts on this go as follows: \n\n\tIf humans offer themselves willingly to the inhumu, who then develop\nsomething of their soul/spirit of not harming others and being\nself-sacrificing, then those inhumu will quit feeding on other humans.\nFeeding from only non-sentient animals, they would lose their sentience and\nrevert to blood-sucking croc vermin. While this would get rid of the inhumu\nproblem, it would be somewhat contrary to Incanto's ethical stance, since he\nbelieves the inhumu spirits to be developing \"souls\" and to do something\nthat would revert them back to beasts would be \"killing\" their human-like\nspirits.\n\n\t-Ram \n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at ungames.com" }, "date": "2000-08-24T18:33:34+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 06:13 PM 8/24/00 -0400, alga wrote:\nThis may well be true in \"The Night Chough,\" which only you and mantis\nseem to have read. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read it, but I didn't come away with the same understanding that Robert\nand mantis did. I need to re-read it in light of their discussion. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's the hus, the whole hus, nothing but the hus." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, you wicked woman. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at ungames.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://www.nyrsf.com\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2000-08-24T18:13:14+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Said William:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Of course I eventually\nrealized that the reason no one else had mentioned this idea before\nme was that everyone else had figured it out already and thought is\nwas too obvious to mention." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not so; we'd all been counting eyes, but you got there first.\n\nMr. Borski:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Note the very last line from \"The Night Chough\" that I quote. In the\noriginal text the word \"Scylla\" is italicized. But it's what follows\nthat's\nimportant. \"That was the bird. And not the bird.\" In other words, Oreb\nis\nsaying \"Scylla,\" but it's actually Scylla (and not the bird) that's\nproviding the information. My argument: that if you're a god and\nyou're\nusing a bird for your mouthpiece, you're riding it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This may well be true in \"The Night Chough,\" which only you and mantis\nseem to have read. But there's not a tweak of evidence for it in the\nfive books we have all read. Scylla has apparently been there (for the\nstory), done that and skedaddled." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mr. Ansley then writing:\n\n\n\nAll right, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right here." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "8-legged thingie is merely some indigenous, but anonymous, member of\nBlue's\nfaunal kingdom. What possesses it to jump from the cliff to the sea?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "directed by Mucor, what has she done so? In other words what are we\nmake of\nthis leap in a broader context? Also: when last seen, the eight-legged\nthingie has plunged into the water and disappeared very near to Horn's\nboat.\nJust coincidentally, when Babbie first appears upon the scene some few\nhundred words later, it's also in the water very near to the boat. I\njust\nthink the simplest most elegant solution is to assume both are one and\nthe\nsame. If I'm wrong, I still need to understand the 8-legged beastie's\nmotivation for jumping--possibly even to its death, since according to\nyou\n(or at least I'm inferring this) we never see it again.\n\nNice to have you back in the Devil's Advocate Position, William!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, don't forget me, Robert! It's my favorite Position, and I think with\nWilliam that your tortured explanations are completely *unnecessary.*\nThe 8-legged thingie is Babbie, whom Mucor has sent to be Horn's\ncompanion and guardian. That's why he jumps and swims. Why do you need\nto drag Neighbors or some anonymous critter into what seems perfectly\nobvious? It's the hus, the whole hus, nothing but the hus.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2000-08-24T18:41:39+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga spoke thus:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This may well be true in \"The Night Chough,\" which only you and mantis\nseem to have read. But there's not a tweak of evidence for it in the\nfive books we have all read. Scylla has apparently been there (for the\nstory), done that and skedaddled." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Although I think we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop and\nreveal what all the Scylla foreshadowing in Short Sun so far is about.\nBut if it turns out to be Oreb, I'll be (right now I think)\nunpleasantly surprised." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2000-08-24T23:02:39+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 6:13 PM -0400 8/24/00, alga wrote:\n > Nice to have you back in the Devil's Advocate Position, William!\n\nOh, don't forget me, Robert! It's my favorite Position [...]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And you hold it much more gracefully than ever I could, alga. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "William Ansley\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-08-28T14:47:17+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) RE: Digest whorl.v011.n027", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roberson, John wrote:\n If humans offer themselves willingly to the inhumu, who then develop\nsomething of their soul/spirit of not harming others and being\nself-sacrificing, then those inhumu will quit feeding on other humans.\nFeeding from only non-sentient animals, they would lose their sentience and\nrevert to blood-sucking croc vermin. While this would get rid of the inhumu\nproblem, it would be somewhat contrary to Incanto's ethical stance, since he\nbelieves the inhumu spirits to be developing \"souls\" and to do something\nthat would revert them back to beasts would be \"killing\" their human-like\nspirits." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And if humans offered themselves knowing that it would result in the\ninhumi losing their intelligence, they would not be acting in the spirit\nof not harming others, so the inhumi would not imbibe this spirit, so\nthey wouldn't stop feeding on humans, so they wouldn't lose their\nintelligence, so the self-sacrificing humans wouldn't be harming them,\nso...\n\n--Adam\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }