Digest whorl.v011.n027 The Whorl list — 6 messages, 6 voices, 24 Aug 2000 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/974 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Roberson, John — 24 Aug 2000, 10:10 > ---------- > From: > whorl-errors at lists.best.com[SMTP:whorl-errors at lists.best.com] > Reply To: whorl at lists.best.com > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:22 AM > To: whorl at lists.best.com > Subject: Digest whorl.v011.n027 > Spectacled Bear wrote: > The Secret: > > The speculations here about the secret of the inhumi being to do with > willing sacrifice are very interesting, but don't address Horn's assertion > that it could be used to reduce the inhumi to mindless animals, not better > but not worse than crocodiles. And how does that fit in with the general > theme that we ought to be *nice* to them? My thoughts on this go as follows: If humans offer themselves willingly to the inhumu, who then develop something of their soul/spirit of not harming others and being self-sacrificing, then those inhumu will quit feeding on other humans. Feeding from only non-sentient animals, they would lose their sentience and revert to blood-sucking croc vermin. While this would get rid of the inhumu problem, it would be somewhat contrary to Incanto's ethical stance, since he believes the inhumu spirits to be developing "souls" and to do something that would revert them back to beasts would be "killing" their human-like spirits. -Ram *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin J. Maroney — 24 Aug 2000, 18:33 follows, by subject match Roberson, John > At 06:13 PM 8/24/00 -0400, alga wrote: > This may well be true in "The Night Chough," which only you and mantis > seem to have read. I read it, but I didn't come away with the same understanding that Robert and mantis did. I need to re-read it in light of their discussion. > It's the hus, the whole hus, nothing but the hus. Oh, you wicked woman. -- Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at ungames.com Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction http://www.nyrsf.com *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ akt — 24 Aug 2000, 18:13 follows, by subject match Kevin J. Maroney Said William: > Of course I eventually > realized that the reason no one else had mentioned this idea before > me was that everyone else had figured it out already and thought is > was too obvious to mention. Not so; we'd all been counting eyes, but you got there first. Mr. Borski: > Note the very last line from "The Night Chough" that I quote. In the > original text the word "Scylla" is italicized. But it's what follows > that's > important. "That was the bird. And not the bird." In other words, Oreb > is > saying "Scylla," but it's actually Scylla (and not the bird) that's > providing the information. My argument: that if you're a god and > you're > using a bird for your mouthpiece, you're riding it. This may well be true in "The Night Chough," which only you and mantis seem to have read. But there's not a tweak of evidence for it in the five books we have all read. Scylla has apparently been there (for the story), done that and skedaddled. > Mr. Ansley then writing: > > one-third(?) > the height of a man will look more like a cluster of (shorter than a > man) > boys or two men on their hands and knees (short > - because doubled over - and with eight leg-like - because of > position - > limbs) than a Neighbor, who is as tall as or taller than a man and has > only > four leg-like limbs (and, of course, four arm-like > ones).> > > All right, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right here. The > 8-legged thingie is merely some indigenous, but anonymous, member of > Blue's > faunal kingdom. What possesses it to jump from the cliff to the sea? If > directed by Mucor, what has she done so? In other words what are we > make of > this leap in a broader context? Also: when last seen, the eight-legged > thingie has plunged into the water and disappeared very near to Horn's > boat. > Just coincidentally, when Babbie first appears upon the scene some few > hundred words later, it's also in the water very near to the boat. I > just > think the simplest most elegant solution is to assume both are one and > the > same. If I'm wrong, I still need to understand the 8-legged beastie's > motivation for jumping--possibly even to its death, since according to > you > (or at least I'm inferring this) we never see it again. > > Nice to have you back in the Devil's Advocate Position, William! Oh, don't forget me, Robert! It's my favorite Position, and I think with William that your tortured explanations are completely *unnecessary.* The 8-legged thingie is Babbie, whom Mucor has sent to be Horn's companion and guardian. That's why he jumps and swims. Why do you need to drag Neighbors or some anonymous critter into what seems perfectly obvious? It's the hus, the whole hus, nothing but the hus. -alga *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alex David Groce — 24 Aug 2000, 18:41 follows, by subject match akt Alga spoke thus: > This may well be true in "The Night Chough," which only you and mantis > seem to have read. But there's not a tweak of evidence for it in the > five books we have all read. Scylla has apparently been there (for the > story), done that and skedaddled. Although I think we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop and reveal what all the Scylla foreshadowing in Short Sun so far is about. But if it turns out to be Oreb, I'll be (right now I think) unpleasantly surprised. -- "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32 -- Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu) Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department 8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William Ansley — 24 Aug 2000, 23:02 follows, by subject match Alex David Groce > At 6:13 PM -0400 8/24/00, alga wrote: > > Nice to have you back in the Devil's Advocate Position, William! > > Oh, don't forget me, Robert! It's my favorite Position [...] And you hold it much more gracefully than ever I could, alga. -- William Ansley *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adam Stephanides — 28 Aug 2000, 14:47 follows, by subject match William Ansley > Roberson, John wrote: > If humans offer themselves willingly to the inhumu, who then develop > something of their soul/spirit of not harming others and being > self-sacrificing, then those inhumu will quit feeding on other humans. > Feeding from only non-sentient animals, they would lose their sentience and > revert to blood-sucking croc vermin. While this would get rid of the inhumu > problem, it would be somewhat contrary to Incanto's ethical stance, since he > believes the inhumu spirits to be developing "souls" and to do something > that would revert them back to beasts would be "killing" their human-like > spirits. And if humans offered themselves knowing that it would result in the inhumi losing their intelligence, they would not be acting in the spirit of not harming others, so the inhumi would not imbibe this spirit, so they wouldn't stop feeding on humans, so they wouldn't lose their intelligence, so the self-sacrificing humans wouldn't be harming them, so... --Adam *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------