{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/981",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 981,
    "subject": "Digest whorl.v011.n029",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2000-08-26T11:29:29+00:00",
    "last": "2000-08-26T14:23:34+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0011-0185@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alice Turner",
        "address": "pei047 at attglobal.net"
      },
      "date": "2000-08-26T11:29:29+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n029",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "From Sieur Borski:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "alga then continuing:\n\n<This may well be true in \"The Night Chough,\" which only you and\nmantis seem\nto have read. But there's not a tweak of evidence for it in the five\nbooks\nwe have all read. Scylla has apparently been there (for the story),\ndone\nthat and skedaddled.>\n\nI'm curious, alga, if you have any thoughts about why then in GREEN's\nProper\nNames In The Text, Wolfe parenthetically includes information about\nhow\nScylla is \"also a sea-monster of the Red Sea Whorl\"--since it doesn't\nseem\nto play (selon toi) a part in the Green narrative at all. Also curious\nif\nyou're still holding to your Mother-as-undine theory, and how you fit\nundines into the Short Sun weltanschauung."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The Red Sun Whorl is, of course, Urth. And if Urth is Earth in any way\nScylla is indeed a sea-monster of ancient mythology. But I have no idea\nwhy wicked Mr. Wolfe identified her that way and I agree that it seems\nleft fieldish. I had forgotten that I ever advanced the Mother-as-undine\ntheory--you have a good memory! No, I don't hold to it now; the Mother\nseems rather more complicated than an undine. I wonder if we will ever\nknow more about her--perhaps not. There are some equally mysterious\nMothers in German mythology that continue to baffle."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Falcon then ruminating:\n\n<Just because Oreb sees Scylla in the lake and another person sees\nScylla\nwalking beside Oreb and someone else doesn't prove that Oreb is being\nridden\nby Scylla.  What we see of Scylla, for example when she rides\nChenille, is a\npersonality that exhibits vicious and bloodthirsty characteristics\nutterly\nforeign to Oreb's character. [snip] A Scylla-ridden Oreb would be a\nmuch\ndifferent, and less likable and wise, bird.>\n\nOreb, in \"The Night Chough,\" is a somewhat more sinister figure, even\ngoing\nso far as to suggest which weapons Starling use to avenge the murder\nof his\ngirlfriend. Then again, the murderers (who also sexually assault Lily)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "are"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "hardly sympathetic figures. (Hurry up, Kevin M. and reread the story."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Surely"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "others on the list have read TNC?)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I suppose Wombat will take me to task for copyright violation if I\npublically wonder if anyone could be persuaded to photocopy this story\nand pass it out to those interested. (In fact, Wombat, it's not a\nviolation if it's for private use.) If someone sent ME a copy, I would\ngladly act as a conduit just so we could all figure out what we're\ntalking about here.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0011-0188@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Kevin J. Maroney",
        "address": "kmaroney at ungames.com"
      },
      "date": "2000-08-26T14:23:34+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v011.n029",
      "in_reply_to": "<whorl-v0011-0185@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 11:29 AM 8/26/00 -0400, you wrote:\nI suppose Wombat will take me to task for copyright violation if I\npublically wonder if anyone could be persuaded to photocopy this story\nand pass it out to those interested. "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Me? No, never. <whistles quietly and looks the other way>"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "(In fact, Wombat, it's not a violation if it's for private use.) "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "That's not precisely true: copying is perfectly allowed for *personal*\nuse--i.e., if you own a work, you can make copies of it for your own use. \n\nBut this is clearly limited copying for valid purposes of scholarship. I\ndon't think anyone would contest that this is reasonable fair use, no\ndifferent than copying out of a library. "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "If someone sent ME a copy, I would\ngladly act as a conduit just so we could all figure out what we're\ntalking about here."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'll see what I can do about getting you a copy. "
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at ungames.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://www.nyrsf.com\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}