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I'm with you James. For me, the whole fun of that scene is that WE know what the picture is, but they don't. It's another case where all the puzzling over the puzzle seems to shr…
17 Dec 2010, 22:08
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Made me crack open my copy of Tolkien's letters. Some relevant stuff in #153 "To Peter Hastings": "As for 'whose authority decides these things?' the immediate 'authorities' are …
16 Dec 2010, 19:03
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I don't think you have to get too deep into the theology to make Antonio's/my point. If the Outsider is God/Father/HolySpirit/whichever aspect of the "real" god (in fact, it fits…
16 Dec 2010, 16:04
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I don't think anyone really doubts that angle. There may be plenty of doubt about WHICH philosophical ideas he's working with, but we all like the books because of that depth, I'…
16 Dec 2010, 15:58
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Is it also possible that this is a nod to the different aspects of the Trinity that people have been throwing around? We have two gods whose names are forgotten: the Outsider, wh…
16 Dec 2010, 14:09
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So I get all the sacrifice stuff and redemption, etc. But why is that aspect of God also identified as the Logos/Word?…
16 Dec 2010, 00:45
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Understood. I'm just always wary of how much to think of the speculative stuff as actual cosmology in Wolfe. So many questions arise: which books are then cosmological and which…
16 Dec 2010, 00:30
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Just curious, then: if the Logos was eternal, why did it have to enter history in the form of an actual living man? (Not arguing...honestly curious. And sorry to get away from Wo…
16 Dec 2010, 00:22
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Strangely enough, I think that's actually a point of debate in the history of theology: namely, does the universe only need one redeemer? Does every planet need its own Christ? W…
16 Dec 2010, 00:17
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So, Witz, are you saying that, fundamentally, you don't think that BotNS is fiction? I mean, sure the story's made up, but are you saying that you find BotNS to actually be a wor…
16 Dec 2010, 00:03
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I get the point about the Outsider being "God" but not "Christ" in the sense that the Outsider didn't deliver the sermon on the mount or actually be the body that died on the cro…
15 Dec 2010, 23:51
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Is this becoming the same conversation I always have with freshmen in my literature classes? I invariably get some form of the complaint: "But it's art! You can't tell me that my…
13 Dec 2010, 19:43
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I imagine the dead parrot sketch would be over pretty quickly if Severian ran the pet shop... ----- Original Message ---- From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> To: Th…
05 Dec 2010, 13:56
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My apologies if this is old news. (I didn't find it in the archives.) I just noticed that amazon has a listing for _Home Fires_ and a summary: Gene Wolfe takes us to a future Nor…
02 Dec 2010, 18:01
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All this talk about atheism has me wondering since it's been a couple of years now since I've actually re-read it: are there any passages in New Sun where the Increate acts direc…
02 Dec 2010, 17:38
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Antonio said: I agree. And, as I tried to say in the summary on Wright, I think his position is that either theological interpretation of Wolfe's stuff (as either atheistic OR r…
02 Dec 2010, 17:26
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This is a longish post, but I wrote it because I wanted to make sure that Wright doesn't get short shrift. As I've said before, his book is really worth your time, even if you do…
02 Dec 2010, 16:46
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True, but that makes both seem paltry. Ultimately, intention is secondary to whatever is in the books. I take it that we have 4+1 books called _The Book of the New Sun_. Intervie…
01 Dec 2010, 20:23
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I generally agree. Or rather, I absolutely agree about things internal to the text. When it comes to the author's stated intentions or explanations of a text, though, I'm more c…
01 Dec 2010, 17:25
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It seems like there are different ways to take it. When I first read it, I thought, "And here's Wolfe deciding to be 'literary.' Let's stop the 'quest-adventure' and do some them…
30 Nov 2010, 18:02
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I think this is how many more people approach the text (at least on this list): The bigger point of Wright's book is to say that Wolfe is usually doing something opposite and eve…
30 Nov 2010, 17:50
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A very fair point. I think that's especially true of New Sun...and probably of Wolfe in general...especially since so many people see so many different "clues" as "evidence" of a…
30 Nov 2010, 17:16
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Just on Wright's "unwillingness" to discuss a theological standpoint: after reading the book, I think he just honestly believes that BotNS is a book about deception, primarily ab…
30 Nov 2010, 16:48
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To be fair, I don't think Wright's central thesis is that BotNS is atheistic. Or rather, that's certainly where he ends up, but I don't think he's primarily giving a theological …
29 Nov 2010, 15:55
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I'm a bit confused by his summary: Wolfe is a good writer but I wouldn't call his work literature so much as eloquent, intriguingly convoluted post-new wave SF. Wolfe's penchant f…
21 Sep 2010, 21:44
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I think (almost) all of us have been guilty of that at some point, myself included. (I know I've got some weird ideas about TWK and Sorcerer's House.) But one thing that I always…
24 Aug 2010, 21:02
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Thanks for the info. It's just me (or just yahoo). I added a filter just to move anything with "urth" to the Inbox...simple fix if anyone else has the same problem since yahoo do…
11 Aug 2010, 16:14
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Has anyone else suddenly had the majority of Urth posts end up in spam mailboxes? I haven't changed my settings at all, and I'm trying to figure out what might be happening.…
11 Aug 2010, 15:35
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Coming late to this discussion, but I have to say that I disagree to both. As much as his hard core fans (i.e., us) adore the puzzle side of his writings, I get the sense that Wo…
11 Aug 2010, 15:32
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I'll add something to the discussion, noting from the beginning that I don't have a personal stake in the argument, although I probably agree with how Roy is reading the textual …
11 Aug 2010, 14:55
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This final point really strikes home, methinks. The theory also ties up all the various strands of Inire's manipulations quite well. So what of "Patera," then? When we get to Lon…
17 Jul 2010, 15:47
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A) You're over-reacting. I like irony. Consequently, I actually liked the post and specifically said I wasn't criticizing the ideas put forward about the Cumean. Yet somehow you …
17 Jul 2010, 15:23
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A) Awesome because the "simpler" example is obviously *way* more complex, as far as explanations go. B) This is science fiction, and, in TBotNS, aliens quite obviously do exist. …
17 Jul 2010, 14:10
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Not criticizing the theory of the Cumean, but I just find it awesome that you invoke Occam's Razor to eliminate the possibility that she's an alien in favor of the vicissitudes o…
17 Jul 2010, 13:15
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My apologies to everyone. The facebook emails sent from my account to everyone seem to be part of some kind of odd phishing scam, and are not from me. Best to just delete anything,…
09 Jun 2010, 03:34
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If by "radical," you mean to look at the term's etymology, it comes from Latin's sanus, or something like "healthy." So when you say that atheists are insane, you *really* mean tha…
06 Jun 2010, 18:03
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Just out of curiosity: are you implying that we should assume that your emails have the same subtlety, depth, and layers as Wolfe's fiction? Who's going to write the Lexicon Bruni…
06 Jun 2010, 14:59
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Well, sure. But they're also serving very similar purposes as far as this discussion goes. (There's context as well as definition.) Both are didactic types of writing. And the disc…
06 Jun 2010, 14:52
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Well, maybe. But now we're quibbling. You're a fan of "fable." I'm a fan of "allegory." But we likely think the words mean similar things. It's a fable. If every work that u…
06 Jun 2010, 06:11
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Of course it's an allegory...just a "good" one. Even Tolkien broke his own rules: what is "Leaf by Niggle" if not an allegory?…
06 Jun 2010, 05:15
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Shouldn't a master of high propaganda hit the best seller list more often? heh ----- Original Message ---- From: "brunians at brunians.org" <brunians at brunians.org> To: The U…
06 Jun 2010, 02:47
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I think it's important to remember that Tolkien was a scholar of ancient languages who also had to spend plenty of time teaching medieval literature. Apparently, his colleagues say…
06 Jun 2010, 02:39
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Whose? Wolfe's? Lewis'? Pullman's? ----- Original Message ---- From: "brunians at brunians.org" <brunians at brunians.org> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Se…
06 Jun 2010, 02:27
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So recent discussions have me thinking about a book that's a couple of years old new, but on topic: _The Magician's Book: A Skeptic's Adventures in Narnia_ by Laura Miller. Basical…
05 Jun 2010, 18:22
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Or courtesy. ----- Original Message ---- From: "brunians at brunians.org" <brunians at brunians.org> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 4…
24 May 2010, 14:28
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Talk about whatever you want. I don't even care if it ends up in my mailbox. I just want to know if I can delete it without having to read it first. I like to think that emails fro…
21 May 2010, 03:49
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TWK is obviously just a reboot of _A Connecticut Yankee_... But, seriously, couldn't we at least put an OT or "Off Topic" in the subject line once discussions go severely off-Wolf…
21 May 2010, 03:47
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Will whoever actually writes about Gene Wolfe next please change the subject line so I know to start reading again. I mean that sincerely and without snark.…
21 May 2010, 03:36
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All the theological discussion makes me wonder: Do we have a list anywhere of specifically non-fiction books that Wolfe has actually mentioned or read? Castle of Days mentions vari…
20 May 2010, 01:18
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This idea reminds me of (the decidedly UN-Catholic) Milton's notion of a spectrum of purity among levels of existence in Paradise Lost. The angel Raphael explains this to Adam: O…
18 May 2010, 13:38
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