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Jack, Jeff, Witz--- I recall a hint somewhere that Abaia and Erebus were not from Urth, but I am not sure Jonas is the source of that. Where does he suggest that? I recall thinkin…
09 Dec 2008, 20:28
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And to pick up another thread, I think it's helpful to view TBotNS's cosmology from a faerie or Greek perspective. Severian need not be related to the undines, but that's one way o…
09 Dec 2008, 20:08
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*Really useful stuff! Yes, Wizard Knight feels like the right answer. How about the rest of them? I'm not sure if that last one is because the bullet travels faster than sound, …
09 Dec 2008, 20:00
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I've had roughly similar experiences, without myrrh---startlingly vivid "waking dreams" that include mundane but totally "wrong" details. These are sometimes hard to shake off. M…
08 Dec 2008, 22:52
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Actually, since powerful thinking machines apparently lie just beneath the surface of the whole Yesod/Hieros/Hierogrammates complex---in a way I do not comprehend---the paperwork w…
08 Dec 2008, 19:51
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Ah, very nicely reasoned, Jeff. Perhaps so. I somehow imagine angels sitting in office buildings on Yesod, layer upon layer of middle management and banks of miracle hotline worke…
08 Dec 2008, 19:09
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On the other hand, if every possible event is God's will, then the concept of God's will becomes meaningless. It will only matter, after accepting a fully populated tree, whether…
08 Dec 2008, 15:26
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So, superior but not perfect. Yes, you would think that their "higher" perspective is worth something. However, it might equally well be worth nothing. I'm skeptical that knowledg…
08 Dec 2008, 15:06
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Yes, that's likely to have been intended. It fits with so much else. But I'm thinking primarily of Ash's "future," which is only a possible future from a time before the New Sun, …
08 Dec 2008, 14:55
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Ah, but you said, "That's it." As in, it's that simple. Now you're saying it's not that simple: "either He wills it to occur, or he chooses not to prevent it." This seems like a h…
07 Dec 2008, 22:47
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Exactly. I meant also to ask, Do Abaia and his lords perceive the will of the Increate? Presumably they do not, any more than the Hierogrammates do. But they seem to try to resis…
07 Dec 2008, 20:40
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Craig, all that is very well said and very much in line with the conclusions I have been groping toward. I agree that Wolfe is inquisitive and his writing is exploratory. He asks q…
07 Dec 2008, 20:19
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Sure, but so what? How does that help explain anything in TBotNS? No one has questioned that there is evil---I have said that Wolfe clearly believes it is real. The question is to …
07 Dec 2008, 19:46
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Oh, well, it's all settled then. We can stop discussing it and writers can stop writing about it. Any further questions should be suppressed. Literature is dead. Burn your copies o…
07 Dec 2008, 19:39
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Yes, that is a difficult interpretation to accept, on many levels. It's unsatisfying to me, too---an atheist---even more than it would be in any other kind of story. I don't sugges…
06 Dec 2008, 02:38
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Witz, I'd love to hear those MP3s. Maybe I could turn my wife on to Wolfe with that as a strategem. We enjoyed the Tree Is My Hat audioplay. BTW, I've cleaned up those text files…
05 Dec 2008, 22:21
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Huh. Well, thanks for that. So maybe the biblical Flood could be seen as a eugenics project too! ;)…
05 Dec 2008, 16:01
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I suppose one could speculate that in Ash's timeline, there was plenty of time to evacuate, because Urth died slowly. Typhon sent millions forth in the Whorl, so the Commonwealth c…
05 Dec 2008, 15:10
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And that relates to something I brought up earlier, which is the role of doubt in faith, and the way science fiction can either conform to our sci-fi expectations or break them (as…
05 Dec 2008, 14:51
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John--- I agree, and I especially like your formulation of "the kind of Messiah humanity deserves." That's why such a Bad Example as Severian can be Epitome. What Urth deserves is…
05 Dec 2008, 14:31
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That Christ looks ready to CAGE FIGHT! Seriously, I considered making a certain point regarding the evidence of Urth's age but didn't want to fan the fire. The theology issue seem…
04 Dec 2008, 20:29
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Witz--- Talk about syncretism! This line: You corpse animators, charcoal burners, Moulders of wax, adherants to the Seen reminds me of the villagers Severian and Burgundafara m…
04 Dec 2008, 19:40
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I enjoy the ambiguity of "all-powerful." Doesn't it also suggest "all-doing," as in an active (male, Sun, bright/look-at-me) aspect vs a passive (female, moon, dark/look-away-mor…
04 Dec 2008, 19:19
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John--- That's exactly right, as far as I'm concerned. Severian is a kind of apocalyptic tattooed biker Jesus! (There's an inspiration for the graphic novel.) Of course this does…
04 Dec 2008, 18:50
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As to that, I'd guess that the Christ myth contains all those myths---it is constructed of them. That's not quite the same as saying there is no difference, but it's close. The big…
04 Dec 2008, 18:27
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It would be pretty crazy to have a photo of Neil Armstrong survive the gazillions of years, but not Christianity and its imagery. Especially since Nessus is Byzantium, and Severian…
04 Dec 2008, 18:08
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That's a fine answer, especially the second part. However, to be fair, Severian also remarks on tree stumps having been petrified, and then performs one of the speculations for wh…
03 Dec 2008, 22:39
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Witz--- Supposedly, there is a Jewish tradition that each generation has its potential messiah. But usually that messiah fails. (I'm not sure what's supposed to happen if he succe…
03 Dec 2008, 17:26
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Yes, I agree. There are 2 aquastors (at least), one before Yesod and one after the Flood. Each answer breeds new questions, however. Where/how are there 2 bodies in Apu's tomb? Th…
03 Dec 2008, 16:53
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I found the relevant passage: "But if Apu-Punchau is myself, what was the body I found on Tzadkiel's ship?" Nearly whispering, Famulimus sang, "The man whom you saw dead your mo…
03 Dec 2008, 03:30
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Thanks, Roy. Got to ponder that a while ... The intervention of B+O+F occurs in chapter L; Severian falls and dies in chapter IX. But I can see how it could be. The text says onl…
03 Dec 2008, 00:38
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Thanks for the links, Tim. It looks like the "exact" origin of Nessus is unsettled enough for my theory to fit without contradicting anyone else's South American theory. I agree th…
01 Dec 2008, 17:19
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My curiosity has been awakened---What is the argument for Nessus' being Buenos Aires? I agree that it's a candidate, and I understand that, if anything, Nessus would be "a descen…
01 Dec 2008, 16:24
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Often Wolfe's writing reminds me that he's an engineer by training, and as a writer perhaps more comfortable when describing physical objects and relationships. I wonder if that's …
28 Nov 2008, 22:50
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Witz Any of the Hainish novels are very good and are on a similar imaginative scale as TBotNS, but more (pel)lucid. Atwood's review describes it a bit. Earthsea was my Golden Book…
26 Nov 2008, 19:28
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I guess one way to sum this up is to say that the theme of BotNS is not morality but myth itself and its ability to approach the Divine. Once you accept that, then the "slippery" q…
26 Nov 2008, 17:47
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I know the Whorl left Urth long before the Flood of the New Sun ... but still, Craig's suggestion of a deliberate conflation of the Flood and the Second Coming can only make me thi…
25 Nov 2008, 21:14
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Jordan, I was having exactly that slippery series of thoughts when I first threw the idea out there. Now at least we are all confounded together.…
25 Nov 2008, 21:00
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24 Nov 2008, 22:50
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Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:19:09 -0700 From: Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com> Subject: Re: (urth) Severian as reverse Christ (or something) To: urth at lists.urth.…
22 Nov 2008, 23:05
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Yes, exactly (to both of you). There have been many essentially fictional reworkings of the Christ figure over the centuries, some within and some, like Wolfe's, outside the trad…
21 Nov 2008, 21:20
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Just to stir the pot again---if Severian IS Apu Punchau, is there any reason why he can't BE Christ? Do we not live in the same universe as Severian? Therefore, wouldn't the Conc…
21 Nov 2008, 20:18
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My attempt at clarification may have gotten lost because I mistitled my second post. I'll try one more time. I've read very little about Wolfe, or Wolfe's ideas about Wolfe, or …
21 Nov 2008, 13:16
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