Whorl Name and a theory...
The Whorl list — 5 messages, 3 voices, 15 May 1998
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/474
Dan'l Danehy Oakes15 May 1998, 09:16original
Rostrum Rote:
5 quoted lines
There are lots of passages where people use the same syntax
as if they were going to say "world" but say "whorl" instead.
Stuff like, "She's the most beautiful woman in the whole
Whorl!" or "Unlike Pas and Scylla and the other gods, the
Outsider exists outside the Whorl."
-- in fact, in the language of the Long Sun, the word "whorl"
has replaced the word "world" entirely; they talk about Urth
as the "Short Sun Whorl", ask questions like, "What in the
Whorl are you talking about?", etc.
I think there's something more going on here than meets the
eye (With Wolfe? Heaven forfend!), but I'm not quite clear
on what it is.
A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider
(= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus
and Peter) made the World; the gods (= Typhon et famille)
made the Whorl. The Whorl is not the World but isolated
from it, a place where Typhon et alia can be gods (because
God is specifically excluded).
But they couldn't quite pull it off. This (if this theory proves out -- I think it warrants a good look) is where one of the most interesting pieces of narrational twisting in all of Wolfe takes place. We are told (by whom? Can't recall!) that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory of them from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- aggrandizing style.
Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from
the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also
unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the
prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into
the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk).
Just a thought,
--Roach
Michael Straight18 May 1998, 10:31original
↳ follows, by subject match Dan'l Danehy Oakes
9 quoted lines
On 15 May 1998, Dan'l Danehy Oakes wrote:
We are told (by whom? Can't recall!)
that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory of them from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- aggrandizing style.
Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from
the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also
unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the
prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into
the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk).
The way I read that business is that Typhon et. al. wanted to erase the starcrossers' memories of Typhon the Tyrant and replace them with memories of Allfather Pas the Omnibenificent who, when they arrived at their destination, would be incarnated into a human form (the original purpose of Silk's body?) and be their Divine Ruler.
Erasing all memory of the true God would be a necessary part of this plan and (because he is the true God) was not entirely successful, as you point out.
-Rostrum
Kevin J. Maroney18 May 1998, 12:42original
↳ follows, by subject match Michael Straight
4 quoted lines
At 09:16 AM 5/15/98 -0700, Dan'l (Robin) wrote:
A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider
(= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus
and Peter)....
Strictly speaking, I believe the only other name we're given for the Outsider is Allah.
I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major source for Wolfe.
Wombat
--
Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies
kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190
Michael Straight18 May 1998, 16:53original
↳ follows, by subject match Kevin J. Maroney
2 quoted lines
On Mon, 18 May 1998, Kevin J. Maroney wrote:
I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major source for Wolfe.
Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament:
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of
Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked
around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an
altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as
something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23).
-Rostrum
Kevin J. Maroney18 May 1998, 17:15original
↳ follows, by subject match Michael Straight
8 quoted lines
At 04:53 PM 5/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament:
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of
Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked
around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an
altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as
something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23).
I'd forgotten that one. But the use of the Outsider in the standard prayers in Long Sun is quite similar to the Unknown Gods in Pausinas--as a catch-all for those Gods who are possibly forgotten or possibly never known but still deserve mention because, hey, they're gods.
Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies
kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190
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