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Index · 5 messages · 3 voices · 15 May – 18 May 1998

Whorl Name and a theory...Whorl

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Dan'l Danehy Oakes15 May 1998, 09:16originalas archived
Whorl Name and a theory...
↰ answers Michael Straight · by quotation
Rostrum Rote:
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There are lots of passages where people use the same syntax as if they were going to say "world" but say "whorl" instead. Stuff like, "She's the most beautiful woman in the whole Whorl!" or "Unlike Pas and Scylla and the other gods, the Outsider exists outside the Whorl."
-- in fact, in the language of the Long Sun, the word "whorl" has replaced the word "world" entirely; they talk about Urth as the "Short Sun Whorl", ask questions like, "What in the Whorl are you talking about?", etc. I think there's something more going on here than meets the eye (With Wolfe? Heaven forfend!), but I'm not quite clear on what it is. A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider (= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus and Peter) made the World; the gods (= Typhon et famille) made the Whorl. The Whorl is not the World but isolated from it, a place where Typhon et alia can be gods (because God is specifically excluded). But they couldn't quite pull it off. This (if this theory proves out -- I think it warrants a good look) is where one of the most interesting pieces of narrational twisting in all of Wolfe takes place. We are told (by whom? Can't recall!) that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory of them from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- aggrandizing style. Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk). Just a thought, --Roach
Michael Straight18 May 1998, 10:31originalas archived
↳ follows Dan'l Danehy Oakes · by subject
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On 15 May 1998, Dan'l Danehy Oakes wrote: We are told (by whom? Can't recall!) that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory of them from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- aggrandizing style. Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk).
The way I read that business is that Typhon et. al. wanted to erase the starcrossers' memories of Typhon the Tyrant and replace them with memories of Allfather Pas the Omnibenificent who, when they arrived at their destination, would be incarnated into a human form (the original purpose of Silk's body?) and be their Divine Ruler. Erasing all memory of the true God would be a necessary part of this plan and (because he is the true God) was not entirely successful, as you point out. -Rostrum
Kevin J. Maroney18 May 1998, 12:42originalas archived
↳ follows Michael Straight · by subject
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At 09:16 AM 5/15/98 -0700, Dan'l (Robin) wrote: A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider (= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus and Peter)....
Strictly speaking, I believe the only other name we're given for the Outsider is Allah. I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major source for Wolfe. Wombat
-- Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190
Michael Straight18 May 1998, 16:53originalas archived
↳ follows Kevin J. Maroney · by subject
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On Mon, 18 May 1998, Kevin J. Maroney wrote: I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major source for Wolfe.
Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament: Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23). -Rostrum
Kevin J. Maroney18 May 1998, 17:15originalas archived
↳ follows Michael Straight · by subject
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At 04:53 PM 5/18/98 -0400, you wrote: Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament: Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23).
I'd forgotten that one. But the use of the Outsider in the standard prayers in Long Sun is quite similar to the Unknown Gods in Pausinas--as a catch-all for those Gods who are possibly forgotten or possibly never known but still deserve mention because, hey, they're gods.
Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190

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