Honor

Roy C. Lackey · 01 Dec 2005, 08:56 · from 2005-December.txt.gz

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From: rclackey at stic.net (Roy C. Lackey)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 02:56:35 -0600
Subject: (urth) Honor
Message-ID: <001601c5f655$2764d5e0$ec3ec6d8 at rclackey.stic.net>

Cliff wrote:
>So what do you think about Org, and their relationship? Org beat Able
>soundly, but then Uri, Baki, and Gylf jumped in. Rather than running
>away, which might have been fine, Org put his neck under Able's boot.
>Perhaps this was because they had made a deal before wrestling.
>Despite the fact that Org was intrinsically evil and irredeemable was
>reinforced throughout the story, he demonstrated a definite loyalty
>to Able, and even extended that loyalty to whoever Able told him to.
>To the point of being really hungry at times. Also, even in the
>dungeon, when Org was apparently very big, and there was no little
>indication that Uri, Baki, or Gylf would jump in if he wanted to, he
>continued to serve Able. What do you think of Org's example of
>loyalty and honor?

Able lost a wrestling match with an ogre, not a real fight; he elected to
use no weapons. I don't know why Org wanted to stay around Able, unless he
was feeling grateful for Able having forced Gylf off him. He was certainly
loyal, but I think the concept of honor was beyond his capacity.

Someone mentioned Pouk; I don't understand Pouk at all. It's hard for me to
conceive of someone so servile. I don't see what he gets out of it. He seems
to me akin to those people who become ecstatic when they come near a
celebrity, like those teenage girls who used to scream and faint at a
Beatles concert. The embodiment of hero worship, I guess.

>Also, Able was defeated other times. Once in the pass, there was a
>similar turnaround where the Knight who had defeated him (the Knight
>of the Lions, was it?) made the decision to become the defeated once
>Able's friends - this time, the dead former weilders of Eterne -
>showed themselves.

Leort had a brief advantage, or so he thought, but Able wasn't defeated. He
was *trying* to lose so he could be free of his vow to defend the pass. (W,
101) He wanted to go looking for Disiri.

Two things I don't understand about that scene. One is the point of the
Green Knight story, with Able in the role of Gawain. The other is why Leort
was so rude to Gerda; it seemed out of character.

-Roy

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