Chinese Curses And Happiness

brunians at brunians.org · 15 Apr 2007, 15:18 · from 2007-April.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:18:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (urth) Chinese Curses And Happiness
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-F22F91180E3E811EC85A34188530 at phx.gbl>
References: <BAY135-F22F91180E3E811EC85A34188530 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6425.67.142.130.12.1176650313.squirrel at brunians.org>

>>> It depends, I guess. The good life that Stoics (and the ancients in
>>> general) were after isn't exactly equivalent to our concept of
>>> "happiness",
>>> but that's probably about the closest fit you're going to get. For a
>>> Stoic it's ok to be happy,

>> As long as you are happy about the right things, that is, because the
>> things under your control (will, desire, aversion, movement towards and
>> away from an object) conform to virtue, that you do not desire what does
>> not belong to you.

> Hmm.  I apologize, but it's been my experience that the things described
> here are often least under our control, anyone else?

It takes work. I have had a fair amount of success. I still fall short often.

I strongly apologize if my faulty understanding of this matter leads me to
communicate inaccurately, and encourage anyone with real interest to check
out the link below, and the (really large amount) of Epictetus' lectures
which have survived.

But it is worth doing. These, our own actions, are the only things it is
*possible* to control.

Also, the terminology is peculiar, or used in a peculiar way. It has taken
me a while to understand, and perhaps I do not completely understand even
now (and I work on this stuff every day). I don't remember if I posted
this here, but this is a good place to start:
http://san.beck.org/Epictetus.html

This translation is different, slightly, then the one I am using (in
hardcover). At some point I will do a translation, which will be better
than any of the three I have been using.

___
Of existing things some are in our power,
others not in our power.
In our power are conception, effort, desire, aversion
and in a word whatever are our actions;
but not in our power are the body, property, reputation,
rulers and in a word whatever are not our actions.

Also things in our power are by nature
free, unhindered, unimpeded,
but things not in our power are
weak, slavish, hindered, belonging to others.

So remember, that if
what is by nature slavish you think free
and what is others' your own,
you will be hindered, you will mourn, you will be disturbed,
and you will blame both gods and humans,
but if you think only yours is yours,
and another's, just as it is, another's,
no one will ever compel you, no one will hinder you,
you will not blame anyone, nor accuse someone,
not one thing will you do unwilling,
no one will harm you, you will have no enemy,
for you will suffer no harm from anyone.
---

Or perhaps we are all merely wrong and deluded, and you are correct, and
it is not possible to control one's own actions. I suppose that is
possible. I have certainly been wrong in the past.

Against this, I am not the only person who has achieved some success at
this work, or found it valuable.

On the third hand, there are people (epicureans generally, some others)
who just think that we are Wrong with a capital W (and stoics
traditionally return the favor). There is certainly room for several
opinions in this discourse.

.

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