And Another:

Paul B · 19 Jul 2007, 18:02 · from 2007-July.txt.gz

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From: pb.stuff at gmail.com (Paul B)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:02:59 -0400
Subject: (urth) And Another:
In-Reply-To: <3e1fa2e90707191045h364d1105j3fe8ff4099333753 at mail.gmail.com>
References: <3e1fa2e90707190942v4be768a7tb62a36fcee65ca46 at mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7617370707191037q2064babci9c007399cc3049fa at mail.gmail.com>
	<3e1fa2e90707191045h364d1105j3fe8ff4099333753 at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1fa2e90707191102s4b2f1966r8611eeecb13b6607 at mail.gmail.com>

To save time and answer my own question, re-examining the old boatman's tale
does make it clear that it's the "other event" case, that is his tie to
Dorcas.  He's obsessed with finding her corpse and has a theory that they
move around and wash down into the river (Ch12, Shadow).  Thus, overhearing
Severian's underwater experience he ties it to his unrelated quest and asks
for clarification.

On 7/19/07, Paul B <pb.stuff at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The old boatman on the Lake of Birds?  But how does he hear about
> Severian's story before Severian meets him?  Or is he referring to some
> other event when he asks about seeing a woman beneath the water?
>
> On 7/19/07, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes. The old man is ... I'm forgetting his name, but Dorcas' husband,
> > and Sev's own grandfather, whom he meets again in the Gardens.
> >
> > On 7/19/07, Paul B <pb.stuff at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for clearing up the previous one, I'm heartened enough by
> > that to
> > > try my luck again with another question:  In Shadow, end of Ch. 2,
> > when
> > > Severian describes his drowning vision, he says he saw
> > Malrubius.  However,
> > > at that point he's questioned by "An old man, a boatman from his
> > tar-stained
> > > clothes" about it, the man asks whether he actually saw a woman.  Of
> > course
> > > Severian does see the undine, and hears Thecla, but doesn't answer.
> > The
> > > puzzling thing is the identity of the man, and how he knows what he
> > does.
> > > Let me know what you think!
> > >
> > > My own speculations are thus:
> > > Judging by his familiarity with the situation - he's confident enough
> > to ask
> > > a clarification of something as ephemeral as a vision, so he must know
> > what
> > > he's talking about - he's familiar with a version of Severian's story
> > told
> > > at another time.  However, the odd thing is that Severian doesn't
> > appear in
> > > any time so close to his starting point.  In fact, the closest
> > documented
> > > time preceding his birth is the age of Typhon, when he travels down
> > Gyoll,
> > > isn't it?  He does encounter a lot of boatmen then, some of whom
> > become his
> > > disciples as the Conciliator, but that is so far removed that it seems
> > > unlikely that they preserved that minor a part of his tale.
> > > The first Severian's time traveling is undocumented as best I know,
> > though
> > > apparently both S1 and S2 are Apu Punchau at some time, and since his
> > tomb
> > > is in the necropolis it's possible that he has in fact visited some
> > time
> > > period much closer to his birth and that's where the story diffuses
> > from.
> > >
> > > However, these are very vague.  Even though Severian often bumps into
> > echoes
> > > of himself, they are usually much more defined ones, that's why I'm
> > curious
> > > if there's a better explanation.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Urth Mailing List
> > > To post, write urth at urth.net
> > > Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
> > -----
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
> > http://www.danehyoakes.com
> > Soon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations,
> > inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire
> > salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards
> > reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Urth Mailing List
> > To post, write urth at urth.net
> > Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
> >
>
>
>
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