Questions . . .

Eric Ortlund · 27 Nov 2007, 18:10 · from 2007-November.txt.gz
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: eortlund at briercrest.ca (Eric Ortlund)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:10:48 -0600
Subject: (urth) Questions . . .
In-Reply-To: <1f7617370711270934w34193140m7837bf9d0dadc402 at mail.gmail.com>
References: <4E82554550FE5149AD4B30A4FEA22492AF8A82 at xchange.briercrest.ca>
	<1f7617370711270934w34193140m7837bf9d0dadc402 at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E82554550FE5149AD4B30A4FEA22492AF8DE0 at xchange.briercrest.ca>

That quote about coincidence is perfect; I gotta remember that.

Thanks for the superb answers; it's deeply satisfying to see the deeper
coherence to this story lurking beneath the whirlwind of events.

I'm again struck by the "repetition" of themes in Wolfe - and I don't at
all mean that as a criticism, because his themes are supberb! - but
people don't tend to stay who they are in his books.  Obviously Silk is
the parade example of this, but it also happens in WK with Ben.  It's
like the same issues keep coming up in Wolfe's mind, surfacing
repeatedly in his novels.

As far as quercine penetralia - i.e., the inner recesses (penetralia) of
an oak (quercine) - I have absolutely no idea.  Oak trees don't seem to
show up anywhere else in the book.  Ships do, but oak trees?  

Not to belabor this, but I'm noticing this time through the BHS the
intentional ambiguity of Severian's character - or, rather, the names
associated with him.  He's constantly called Death (by the Autarch, by
Dr. Talos) - which is true, since he's going to destroy the world in
bringing about the New Sun.  But when Dorcas and Sev talk after being
reunited before the play in the House Absolute, as I remember, Dorcas
calls Severian life, and says that the name Death is something of a
deceitful insult given him by Talos.  Dorcas is right, of course,
because Severian will renew everything; and it is an interesting comment
on Talos' character, as if he's trying to obscure what the New Sun will
bring about.

One more comment and I promise to stop: I couldn't help noticing how
Severian launches into a description of the beauty of the gardens in
which they perform their play (before giving the text of the play) just
after telling how he essentially rapes Jolenta and breaks Dorcas' heart
- almost as if he's trying to distract attention from the terrible thing
he's done.  It reminded me of his narration of the execution of . . .
blast, what's her name, the woman he executes in Saltus, who says she
forgives everyone.  The moral proportions of the story are all wrong -
the man is reading the edict, which asks for forgiveness for the persons
doing the execution, but Severian and the crowd see the execution as a
matter of entertainment or simply doing one's job well (when talking
with Jonas in the hotel later, all Severian says is that he did his job
well - that's all he cares about).  The contrast between Morwenna (is
that her name?) forgiving her executors and Severian pracing around the
stage not once but four times, holding her severed head, celebrating the
skill with which he killed her while the crowd roars, oblivious to the
moral import of his victim forgiving him, couldn't be uglier.  

________________________________

From: urth-bounces at lists.urth.net [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net]
On Behalf Of Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:34 AM
To: The Urth Mailing List
Subject: Re: (urth) Questions . . . [html][mx][spf]


Eric,

These are great questions for examples of how to unpack the layers
of meaning Wolfe stuffs into his texts.



	1) What is the larger significance of the story Sev reads to
Jonas about
	the man fleshed from dreams?  I get that it's a re-working of
the
	Theseus and Minotaur story, but is it anything more than an
entertaining 
	interlude?  Is it some kind of commentary on the surrounding
narrative -
	or Jonas' story?  Severian finishes the story with a dismissive
comment
	about it being an idle tale, but I'm suspicious something more
is going 
	on here.


At one level, of course, it's a retelling of the Greek hero-tale of
Theseus
and the Minotaur. The bit about a hero fleshed from dreams foreshadows
the concept of "aquastors" and in particular the fact that the Severian
who 
becomes the New Sun is himself an aquastor, fleshed from his own will
(dream) when his body dies on the star-sailing vessel, who will pass 
through the spacetime labyrinth to bring the New Sun and destroy the
monsters that beseige Urth.




	2) When Severian meets Rudesind the second time before meeting
the 
	Autarch, is Rudesind's confusion about where they are - he keeps
talking
	about being back in the Citadel, and how they can check the map
in
	Ultan's library - intentional?  Is he hinting something to
Severian? 


I don't think Rudesind is confused; I think that the Citadel and the
House
Absolute are in some way the same place. Mirrors...
 

 

	3) Is there a deeper significance to the code phrases Vodalus
gives
	Severian?  There's so much about ships elsewhere in the book
(the
	pelagic argosy) - the ship on the tomb Sev rests in as a boy,
the ship
	he sails to Yesod in - and the Autarch drops the phrase to Sev.
as he's 
	talking about the higher world Severian will eventually travel
to.  Or
	is it "just" a phrase?


There's a *lot* here.

First, when a pelagic (deep-sea) argosy "sights land," it means that the

long voyage is nearly over. This is true, but not perhaps in the way
that
Vodalus intends.

Second, the argosy is "pelagic" in the sense of Pelagianism: the 
HeiroFoos are guilty of the heresy of trying to perfect humans through 
natural means rather than relying on divine grace.

The ship on Sev's tomb *is* Tzadkiel's ship; at one point, it is implied
that there is only one ship of this sort in the Universe. 

There are no coincidences 
   [COINCIDENCE: You weren't paying attention to the other half of
   what was going on. -- Chad C. Mulligan, "The HipCrime Vocab"]
in the Book of the New Sun; what seems to be a coincidence is
always at least a synchronicity and most likely part of someone's
plan, if only Wolfe's map of the meanings of the Book. 

One of the many things I love about the Book is that what appears 
at first to be driven by a series Dickensian coincidences turns out 
to be a causally-driven plot (though, admittedly, the causality does 
not always work forwards in linear time).


On another level, of course, it's just a phrase.

Someone else wanna unpack the second password? 

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
http://www.danehyoakes.com
I am miserable, he is miserable,
We are miserable.
Can't we have a party? Would he rather have a party? 

-------------------------
Invite the next generation of students to consider Briercrest College and Seminary. Visit www.briercrest.ca/refer.  
-------------------------
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged proprietary material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, or distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, or authorized to receive the information from the recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net