What's So Great About Ushas?

Paul B · 14 Jul 2008, 16:53 · from 2008-July.txt.gz

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From: pb.stuff at gmail.com (Paul B)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:53:36 -0400
Subject: (urth) What's So Great About Ushas?
In-Reply-To: <20080714064747.8F35C2003D at mailserver7.hushmail.com>
References: <20080714064747.8F35C2003D at mailserver7.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e1fa2e90807140953r5bbd13c2pe7dabc8580718bdd at mail.gmail.com>

True, I'm curious about that myself!  It seems evidence tying them to the
Increate is hard to come by in the text, though at least they do mention it,
though perhaps somewhat unusually ("Urth's agonies will be offered to the
Increate" or something to that effect).

Paul

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:47 AM, <thalassocrat at nym.hush.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:58:53 -0400 "Roy C. Lackey"
> <rclackey at stic.net> wrote:
> >
> >Wolfe shows the Hierogrammates to have their own self-serving
> >agenda. He
> >shows them as powers above the stage manipulating events on Urth,
> >and their
> >intentions to continue manipulating the humans of Ushas to achieve
>
> >their
> >desired, and acknowledged, ends. It's too much to quote it all
> >here, but it
> >is right there in black and white in the dialogue Severian had
> >with Apheta
> >immediately after the fight with the sailors. In order to achieve
> >their
> >goals, the Hierogrammates will have to do unto humans exactly what
>
> >the
> >Hieros had done unto them in another universe. As Sev said to
> >Gunnie then,
> >"That's their justice, their whole reason for being. They bring us
>
> >through
> >the pain we brought them through."
> >
> >If the Hieros of that other universe sinned by cruelly fashioning
> >the
> >Hierogrammates (which seems to be axiomatic in the Urth Cycle),
> >then the
> >Hierogrammates will be guilty of the exact same sin in Briah, and
> >will start
> >the whole ugly cycle all over again. The morality of the actions
> >of
> >self-serving creatures of Man's creation is not above the reproach
>
> >of any
> >man.
> >
> >One's having power that is greater than another does not define
> >morality.
>
> Given all this, I still can't figure out why you believe that the
> Hierogrammates are working directly for the Increate. They weren't
> created directly by him; they display no apparent superiority to
> man apart from wielding greater power; their explicit agenda is
> entirely self-serving with no hint of holiness or whatever. And so
> on ...
>
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