What's So Great About Ushas?

Paul B · 18 Jul 2008, 20:18 · from 2008-July.txt.gz

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From: pb.stuff at gmail.com (Paul B)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:18:48 -0400
Subject: (urth) What's So Great About Ushas?
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W4539F81E1FDFA587441AA1D7890 at phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-W4539F81E1FDFA587441AA1D7890 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3e1fa2e90807181318l7a77f6e8sc7aaf6f132bae459 at mail.gmail.com>

I'm curious why you think it'd be more interesting - is it because then I'd
have to solve the Problem of Evil?  I already said I didn't have a solution
for it.

As for a hypothetical Wolfe-view of the Hierogrammates, I suspect his moral
worldview is certainly Christian-influenced.  Christianity is a very
deontological religion, I think, more so than say Judaism (the latter
permits exceptions to things that are uniformly forbidden in Christianity).
God (somehow - Wolfe solved this one in private) gets an exception from the
moral duties the rest of us have, and the Christian angels - whom I've never
heard to act in self-interest - can be privy to whatever exception God is
granted as his tools.  Everyone else has to play by the rules, unless God
personally grants them an exemption (Abraham).

However, the Hierogrammates are quite different from Christian angels, if
you'd like I'll restate the textual references I suggested earlier, and
which were strengthened by Roy, me being without UotNS.

1.) Hierogrammates are human creations.  (Apheta, UotNS)
2.) They are acting in avowed self-interest, so that the future Hieros will
recreate them. (Apheta again)
3.) They are mortal.  (Tzadkiel's son dies)
4.) Their foresight is imperfect - they do not have certainty of the outcome
of their actions.  (Tzadkiel at the trial)

This simply doesn't add up to an angelic nature.  They might pass for
Biblical prophets (except for the human creation and self-interest parts),
but those were never under any moral exemption.
If God came down and literally told them they must drown Urth as such was
his will, Apheta or Tzadkiel probably would have mentioned that as a much
more compelling and palatable reason than what they gave (worked for Isaac,
sorta).  As mortal free agents, however, they have to obey all the
deontological principles the framework of Wolfe's religion imposes on them.

Thus, even in this perspective, they aren't blameless.

Paul

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM, b sharp <bsharporflat at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> The discussion would become quite interesting if Paul B was a Christian.
> Are you Paul?
>
> I really have no quarrel with a person who accepts no entity as a moral
> superior and who
> holds God and angels to the highest standards of his own morality. In the
> real world.
>
> But this is fiction. Do Wolfe's intentions matter at all?   Paul, if you
> are arguing that the
> Hierogrammates are of questionable morality by your standards I think your
> point is made,
> very, very clearly.
>
> If you are arguing that the Hierogrammates are of sub-angelic status by
> Wolfe's standards
> I think you need to use a lot more text quotes to support that.
>
> But either way, answering that simple question would clarify this entire
> discussion:
>
> Are you judging the Hierogrammates by your moral standards or Wolfe's?
>
> -bsharp
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