Shadow, Chapter X

John Watkins · 19 Nov 2008, 20:21 · from 2008-November.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:21:06 -0500
Subject: (urth) Shadow, Chapter X
In-Reply-To: <W2452113335238931227125414@webmail32>
References: <W2452113335238931227125414@webmail32>
Message-ID: <93d4039f0811191221o759bc72eo76de8f2db47db650 at mail.gmail.com>

> I'm using the word in the sense of an Instance in the physical world.
> IF the Logos manifests as a man, that is an instance of that energy, a hypostasis of that energy into flesh.  So, yes, Jesus is a Hypostasis of the Logos.
>

This is subtle.  I'm not sure if I agree with you or disagree with
you.  I think that it's likely that Wolfe, who once called Severian
"an aspect of the Increate," is thinking of instantiation, and has
Severian talk to the Hierodules in Urth about it for that reason.

But the Logos, I think, is something unlike a song--its instantiation
is not identical to itself.  I like my use of the painting--a painting
partakes of the nature of its subject, but is not its subject.

> B) many Christians would also find the notion of an Exucutioner Christ to be beyond the pale of heresy and think this book was some sort of evil perversion.
>

I agree.  I think, actually, that that's one of the more beautiful and
Christian notions of the book--Severian is very much the Stone That
Was Rejected.

>
> But understand, when I say Christ or the Logos, I'm not necessarily talking about Jesus.  I don't even believe in Jesus, yet I'm convinced that the LOGOS is very real. The pope recently reminded the world that Christ IS the Logos.
> It seems people have a hard time separating the worldly instance (Jesus) from the Eternal Essence (LOGOS)
>

The end of the Divine Comedy has a wonderful image that touches on
sort of the flipside of the Christian miracle--the possibility that as
God became Man, Man somehow became a part of God.  It's heretical to
say that God can change, of course, so Dante doesn't say it--he dances
around the idea, though.

> And if he's not an analogue Christ, Why is he carrying a cross around for 3 1/2 books?  No one has addressed the ideas about this that I posted in October.
> http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2008-October/010121.html
>
> ~sonofwitz

Well, I'll have to look at that posting more closely, but Christ
Himself tells his followers that they all must take up the cross.
Severian carrying the cross makes him a "Christian" figure.

It's not unlike Tolkien's work, really. Frodo is clearly a "Christ
figure" in a limited sense--he carries the Ring, which is more or less
the Cross, his three woundings correspond with Christ's wounds or
three falls, he makes a great sacrifice, he too is the Stone the Was
Rejected, etc.  But no one thinks that Frodo is meant to BE Christ in
the sense that Aslan is meant to be Christ.  I think Severian is much
more like Frodo than Aslan.

>
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