Severian / Christ / Logos / Apocatstasis

John Watkins · 24 Nov 2008, 18:55 · from 2008-November.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:55:44 -0500
Subject: (urth) Severian / Christ / Logos / Apocatstasis
In-Reply-To: <W493914841112111227551685@webmail13>
References: <W493914841112111227551685@webmail13>
Message-ID: <93d4039f0811241055x71f566fcoac49ea7f299081de at mail.gmail.com>

Pissing match avoided.  I didn't mean to suggest that the New Sun
meant "only" death. John 12:24, which Dostoevsky chose as the epigram
for The Brothers Karamazov, gets right at it:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the
ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth
much fruit."  (KJV chosen for old-fashioned sound, not because I have
any special reverence for it.)

The one quibble I continue to have with these theories, of course, is
that Gene Wolfe is himself a Christian, and I doubt that he considers
Severian and Christ to both be equal but different instantiations of
an eternal Logos.

Likewise, true apocatastasis is a heretical view in Catholicism.
Perhaps Wolfe embraces it anyway--George MacDonald did, after all, and
Wolfe is at least tangentially on the MacDonald influence tree,
although even Lewis explicitly rejects MacDonald's view on this.  I'm
also unconvinced that the advent of the New Sun represents a true
apocatastasis rather than a false one.

> Also,
> (and I'm NOT trying to get into a pissing match with you John)
> but I feel this is WAY off the mark. from the Guild Secret question:
>
> >Isn't it likely that the secret of the guild is associated somehow
> >with the destruction Severian brings as the New Sun? I.e., the secret
> >is that the Conciliator is a torturer, and that the New Sun means
> >death?
>
> The New Sun does not mean Death.
> It means Rebirth.
> though the ugly truth is that there is no life without death.
> this meat of this book is the first chapter title "Death and Resurrection"
> Sure, it does mean that most living will die, but their path is a dead path anyway, and they are held in barbarism, awaiting the hope of Renewal against the inevitability of Death with Ragnarok.
>
> The characters that cannot seem to accept the notion of personal death for the greater cyclical good are the forces that Oppose the Coming of the New Sun, like the Sorcerers who blind the cock.  They can't let go of their personal attachments for the larger good.
>
> I mean, the second coming of Christ will/would be that for many.
> Kali, the same, yet she will bring a new golden age.
>
> It may be a platitude at this point, but it is true:
> The forest NEEDS the fire to level it periodically or the seeds of renewal will NOT germinate.
>
> Severian's role as a Torturer is KEY here.  He is a good man who must obey.
> He MUST destroy Urth to bring Ushas.  Most of us would NOT be able to do it, and it was clearly very difficult for Severian.  Who but a Torturer could obey that fucking mandate?  Who can wield the Sword that cuts AND heals?
>
> I feel that when Wolfe mentioned that the writing had to do with the ramifications or consequences of his beliefs, I think he may have been trying to grapple with this aspect of the 2nd coming and Apocatastasis. As such, I find it a beautiful meditation on that dichotomy.
>
> ~SonOfWitz
>
> >Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
> >
> >The easiest analogy I know is the strangely-carved block on the cover of
> >Godel
> >Escher Bach. It is carved so that one side of it *IS* a G, one side *IS* an
> >E, and one
> >side *IS* a B, yet they are all one block.
>
>
>
>
>
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