A new mystery ...

Jordon Flato · 03 Dec 2008, 00:09 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: jordonflato at gmail.com (Jordon Flato)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:09:40 -0800
Subject: (urth) A new mystery ...
In-Reply-To: <W6219629142280861228262527@webmail38>
References: <W6219629142280861228262527@webmail38>
Message-ID: <273409710812021609q370b7b95wc389ccac97445ca2 at mail.gmail.com>

The Lexicon conflates the two, so I don't know if there is a difference
either.

The question of consciousness is a good one.  I wish I could find that part
where Severian ponders this question, asking if a man is contained, in
whole, in each part of his body.

I think Aquastor/Eidolon Severian is kept alive by the mind of God, however
one wants to look at this.  We know that Aquastor/Eidolon's are kept going
by the 'Thinking Machines', but what thinking machine would be powerful
enough to follow Severian around through time to keep him going?  To me, he
is being kept alive in the mind of God.  And not only is HE being kept
alive, but all of the other beings inside of him (Thecla and the past
Autarchs).  I'm just rereading Urth, and will have to keep this one in mind.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>wrote:

> Hey Friend.
>
> Eidolon or Aquastor, I'm not sure I know the difference.
>
> One interesting aspect of this is the question of where does consciousness
> lie?  Severian was able to absorb the consciousness by eating flesh with
> pharamacon.  But his consciousness moves on despite his various deaths. I
> suppose the Aquastor idea covers that. But I wonder if this is an example of
> our question as to whether Severian is Divine or not. If he is, surely  his
> consciousness is not limited to his body.
>
> There's also another switchup like this with the Severian that is Apu
> Punchau, right?
>
> I'm re-reading Urth now, so maybe I'm jumping the gun here.
> ~witz
>
>
> >Well, one of the reasons I like the Eidolon theory (being the below
> >mentioned 'friend') is how it resonates thematically.  This would make
> >Severian not bodily resurrected (which he may or may not have been before,
> >with my vote for was), but resurrected in a 'subtle body', held together
> by
> >the 'mind of god'.  Things in quotes are meant to reflect my metaphoric
> >reading.  Sort of like Christ after the crucifiction.  So, as the New Sun,
> >he is really a 'new Severian', which is the Severian who becomes the
> >Concilitor.
> >
> >So, the first incarnation of the Conciliator, the figure who has a huge
> >impact on Severian and Urth in BotNS, is in fact an Edilon Severian
> >resurrected, who comes back to Urth as the New Sun, who will subsequently
> >influence Severian in BotNS, who will go on to become Eidolon Severian etc
> >etc.  This time loop aspect is so damned attractive to me, and so
> brilliant
> >in so many ways.
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org
> >wrote:
> >
> >> >Does anyone know whose body Severian took over after he fell from a
> >> >great height inside the sailship?
> >> >
> >> >And is it this body which writes the first three books? I would assume
> >> >this must be.
> >> >
> >> >And did the first Severian also take over this body?
> >> >
> >> >Dave
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >>
> >> This is something that confuses me. having just read that part.
> >> My friend suggests he's an Eidolon at this point.
> >> But I think he may have died and been resurrected in the very first part
> of
> >> Shadow, swimming in Gyoll, leaving behind the skull that he finds later?
> >> He's also resurrected in the Avern Duel, but there is no additional
> body.
> >> Perhaps he just came close to death.  I think that's where the eidolon
> >> reading comes in, because that's the only body left behind, unless the
> skull
> >> in Gyoll is that.
> >>
> >> Although,it's plausible he could have been having an Out of Body
> Experience
> >> when he closed the dead Severian's eyes after that fall. There are other
> >> instances where Sev has a sort of astral projection that he views
> himself
> >> from without himself.  I'm gonna reread it with that in mind, because
> that
> >> could probably account for all of them. No?
> >>
> >> ~witz
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
>
>
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