A new mystery ...

Son of Witz · 03 Dec 2008, 05:35 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org (Son of Witz)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:35:30 -0800
Subject: (urth) A new mystery ...
In-Reply-To: <4935FD49.8020205 at verizon.net>
References: <mailman.28346.1228264770.21489.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<4935FD49.8020205 at verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BF215563-B79C-40EB-ADAE-465C4ADCB49A at butcherbaker.org>


On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:30 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:

> I found the relevant passage:
>
> "But if Apu-Punchau is myself, what was the body I found on  
> Tzadkiel's ship?"
> Nearly whispering, Famulimus sang, "The man whom you saw dead your  
> mother bore. Or so it seems to me from what's been said. Now I would  
> weep for her if I had tears, though not---perhaps---for you still  
> living here. What we did here for you, Severian, the mighty Tzadkiel  
> accomplished there, remembrance taking from your dead mind to build  
> your mind and you anew."

Nice.

>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Lane Haygood wrote:
>> The etymology of these words shall help.
>>
>> Eidolon is a Greek philosophical term, denoting the abstract  
>> reality of an idea.  For Plato, these are the universal Forms, the  
>> perfect instantiations of a given idea that all particular  
>> instances of are imperfect emanations.  Aquastor comes from  
>> Paracelsus, an entity formed from thought alone.  So an Eidolon is  
>> a projection from a higher world (the Platonic world of ideals/ 
>> Yesod) to a lower world (the physical world/Briah). An aquastor  
>> would be a created being formed of pure thought (intention).
>>
>> It's also important to note that Severian only absorbs some of  
>> Thecla's memory and personality, but not her consciousness itself.   
>> While these things may be in some way linked to the brain, the  
>> sense of identity, the self-consciousness and transcendental unity  
>> of apperception, is not, and thus, Severian-as-intentional-being  
>> never experiences a disconnect between his death(s) and rebirth(s).
>>


I enjoy the hair-splitting confusion here, re Eidolon/Aquastor
my basic reading of the above quote would make him Aquastor.
Eidolon would be the mold any instance, right? the blueprint.

what do y'all think about the multiple deaths? is there a canonical  
list?
second time through BotNS proper, I felt he died a good few times. not  
really sure though.
i mean, "Is He Dead?"
he was for a bit there, right? but no body left behind.



On Dec 2, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:
> Well, one of the reasons I like the Eidolon theory (being the below  
> mentioned 'friend') is how it resonates thematically.  This would  
> make Severian not bodily resurrected (which he may or may not have  
> been before, with my vote for was), but resurrected in a 'subtle  
> body', held together by the 'mind of god'.  Things in quotes are  
> meant to reflect my metaphoric reading.  Sort of like Christ after  
> the crucifiction.  So, as the New Sun, he is really a 'new  
> Severian', which is the Severian who becomes the Concilitor.
>
> So, the first incarnation of the Conciliator, the figure who has a  
> huge impact on Severian and Urth in BotNS, is in fact an Edilon  
> Severian resurrected, who comes back to Urth as the New Sun, who  
> will subsequently influence Severian in BotNS, who will go on to  
> become Eidolon Severian etc etc.  This time loop aspect is so damned  
> attractive to me, and so brilliant in so many ways.


Yowza

that we're just players in God's dream seems REAL enough to me. fun to  
see it played out like this.
tack on ghost story to the genreBended list,

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