Something Newish

brunians at brunians.org · 05 Dec 2008, 05:52 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 00:52:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: (urth) Something Newish
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I think that Wizard Knight is Wolfe's ideas of the kind of thing that
happens to a decent, relatively innocent, but non-Christian person after
death: the world that Able finds himself in is his purgatory.

Does anyone here remember being born? I remember being circumcised (I
would have been eight days old), and I have memories that seem to precede
that, but it is very hard to say.


> My main point, in this and others of the conceededly tiresome threads
> on this topic, has been to argue that the Gene Wolfe who depicts
> non-Christian faiths so empathetically in Long Sun, Short Sun, Latro,
> etc., is likely a big believer in so-called anonymous Christianity.  I
> very much doubt that he thinks that all of those people on Urth are
> going straight to Hell--just try to imagine Silk, for example,
> explaining to Horn that everyone who doesn't follow the Outsider will
> burn eternally.  It's jarring, and almost certainly not where Wolfe is
> going with the destruction of Urth.
>
> Because of this, I don't see Severian's "Christ-like" characteristics
> as implying any kind of moral sanction for the Ushas choice unless
> there's something deeper going on--a third layer, behind the
> Hierogrammates, where the Increate is working some kind of subtle
> magic.  What this is, however, is a mystery I haven't solved yet.
>
> And so I get frustrated when, on this list, many who are not
> Christians themselves sort of imply that this monstrous act in the
> book is something that I should just be gung-ho about because, well,
> the Christian God is pretty much a monster Himself.  I don't buy that,
> and I don't think Wolfe does, and I think it misses the mark in
> understanding the New Sun.
>
> Anyway, that's my take.  I've said it.
>
> On 12/4/08, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > >Not exactly sure that's a fair way to describe the Second
>> Coming...the
>> > >End of the Universe is naturally a "mass genocide" in a sense, but a
>> > >very limited one...
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Fair enough.  But, the end of everything is a limited genocide?  I guess
>> you
>> can argue that, but there is always the ever present and tiring argument
>> that the billions of non-Christians slated to go to hell is about as bad
>> as
>> the drowning of most of Urth.  However, that is a surface level and
>> facile
>> argument that I'm not going to put forward.  To me, that's about the
>> level
>> of "if God is so good, how come he let's kids die" argument, which I
>> also
>> think is facile.
>>
>> I'm going to definitely concede that one area that Severian is very
>> UNChristlike is that he isn't aware of his (possible) connection with
>> the
>> Divine plan.  Christ certainly knows where his bread is buttered.  Sev
>> doesn't.  But again, at root this is all a "Sev has some echos of the
>> Christ
>> Myth" not "Sev is actually Christ".
>>
>> The hair's we are splitting are getting so fine I'm gonna need a bigger
>> scalpel.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >Well, yes, but neither Severian nor, it seems, Tzadkiel is the master
>> > >of life and death.  They have no sure knowledge of life "on the other
>> > >side," nor any authority over creation the way a divine being does.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >It'd be nice to have some textual evidence, though, wouldn't it?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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