The Will Of God

John Watkins · 06 Dec 2008, 03:16 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:16:38 -0500
Subject: (urth) The Will Of God
In-Reply-To: <11112.67.142.130.13.1228531535.squirrel at brunians.org>
References: <mailman.33212.1228522619.21489.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<4939E5BD.1050306 at verizon.net>
	<11112.67.142.130.13.1228531535.squirrel at brunians.org>
Message-ID: <93d4039f0812051916k2cd11652o25bd97e7ddce132e at mail.gmail.com>

I don't think that's quite right.

What occurs occurs by the will of God.  I.e., He created all that is,
and possesses mastery--He could at any time and in any matter
intervene decisively.

It does not follow (or at least, so Christians say) that what occurs
occurs in accordance to the will of God.

Of course, many are persuaded that the problem of evil is
intractable--that this distinction is without meaning. I take it that
Wolfe is not among them.



On 12/5/08, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
> God is omniscient and omnipotent.
>
> What occurs is the will of God.
>
> What is not the will of God does not occur.
>
> That's it.
>
> It's truly amazing to me how people complicate this.
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>> Yes, that is a difficult interpretation to accept, on many levels. It's
>> unsatisfying to me, too---an atheist---even more than it would be in any
>> other kind of story. I don't suggest it.
>>
>> On the other hand, God DOESN'T cause the deaths of puppies, does he? We
>> cause our own pain and each other's. So couldn't it be true that selfish
>> manipulation by charlatans carries out the Work of God anyway---or even
>> that it ALWAYS gets carried out DESPITE their manipulations?
>>
>> The sticking point is what kind of Work is worth (or worth overlooking)
>> such atrocities. John's link will take you right into a discussion of
>> exactly that. I don't know the answer.
>>
>> The Manvantara scheme sounds pretty mechanistic and pointless to me too,
>> unless I missed something. It almost seems to propose a "hungry
>> universe"---that the universe is just plain hungry, generating and
>> destroying life like a cosmic woodchipper. This idea is closer to what
>> most mythologies assume than it is to any Christian universe. All the
>> astronomer societies believed that deep time crushes humanity repeatedly,
>> on a vast scale.
>>
>> You'd think the Increate would offer some escape from this if he is God.
>> Maybe he isn't. Maybe he does.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:16:57 +0000
>> From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
>> Subject: Re: (urth) Abaia and the undines
>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
>> Message-ID: <W217641043543611228522617 at webmail32>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>>> >for example, I see no reason to assume that the
>>> Hierogrammates/Hierodules
>>> >really work for the Increate at all, or do his bidding, or that the
>>> >Increate caused the Flood any more than God causes the deaths of
>>> puppies).
>>>
>>
>>
>> What I find HARD to swallow, is the idea that a devout Catholic, a
>> self-proclaimed "Catholic Author",  would write a sprawling Messianic tale
>> about Death & Resurrection which had it's ultimate point that everything
>> that seemed to be the Work of God was just a bunch of selfish manipulation
>> by charlatanes.
>>
>> That is the most preposterous idea I've seen yet in conjunction with this
>> work.
>>
>> Does anyone thing a Believer in Christ would write a story this full of
>> Christian symbolism just to yank the rug out from under you and say
>> "sucker, you're faith is all a lie"?
>>
>> I have to say, it's not a compelling reading.
>>
>> ~sonofwitz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
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