Abaia and the undines

brunians at brunians.org · 11 Dec 2008, 23:34 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:34:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: (urth) Abaia and the undines
In-Reply-To: <W252632082231861229025446@webmail33>
References: <W252632082231861229025446@webmail33>
Message-ID: <49384.66.126.239.225.1229038475.squirrel at brunians.org>

>> First, there is a Black Worm or Wolf or Panther or Dragon eating the Sun
>> in every mythology.

Yes, Caput and Cauda Draconis (them Head and Tail of the dragon) are
associated with lunar and solar eclipses. I think Caput is actually the
one associated with Solar eclipses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caput_Draconis

Caput being the ascending or north-going and cauda the descending or
south-going node of the Moon's orbit in reference to the Sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_node

How many dragons are there in the sky?



.


It's one of the main reasons for a hero to arise and
>> go forth to die in combat with powerful beings to save the dying land.
>> Second, there has always been speculation about the possibility of a
>> spontaneous black hole developing in (or a very small one falling into?)
>> the Sun. It's unlikely for it to actually happen, but it's a solid sci-fi
>> explanation for bringing a mythical element into the story. And one way
>> to summarize TBotNS is that it does exactly that over and over---not
>> science fantasy but science MYTHOLOGY.
>>
>>Finally, it lets Wolfe set the story whenever he damn well wants to, and
>> Urth can grow cold and die long before any stellar physicist can complain
>> that the proper evolutionary track has been violated.
>
> I suppose the 2nd point, about the Hieros doesn't conflict with the 3rd
> and 4th points you make.  I think, yeah, Wolfe is working with a
> micrcosmic apocatastasis here, so the myth comes first, and anything else
> is just something to make that somewhat plausible.
>
>
>>BTW, I have a mostly-cleaned-up PDF of all 5 books. Shall I send you this
>> PDF?
>
> Yes PLEASE.
> ~Witz
>
>
>
> ate: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:21:44 +0000
>>From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
>>Subject: Re: (urth) Abaia and the undines
>>To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
>>Message-ID: <W4996120908111691228951304 at webmail9>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>>I too have a hard time buying any of the explanations of where the text
>> clues us into any astroengineering.
>>
>>along that line of reasoning, the Old Autarch's dialogue could possibly
>> add some support.  From the "Autarch of the Commonwealth chapter in
>> Citadel:
>>
>>We know the Hierodules are behind the Autarchy.  When the Autarch says
>> "we" he probably means the Hierarchs and the state.  So, it could be that
>> the condemnation is that they were held in barbarism.  That they were
>> 'condemned' to a lesser evil than that of Erebus's brand of evil.
>>
>>Also, Severian says in Urth XII
>>"I felt my consciousness falling in upon itself as the matter does in the
>> heart of a star"
>>
>>the combination of these two bits of text may support the final potential
>> explanation that the Lexicon Urthus gives for why a black hole might be
>> in the heart of the sun.
>>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>"Finally there is a theory of how there might already be a black hole in
>> the heart of our star...Among the many possibilities presented by
>> Pournelle, one seems especially germane: "there's a black hole of around
>> 1% of the Sun's mass dead center in our star, and the Sun shines because
>> matter falling into the hole gives off energy; there's no fusion in there
>> at all"
>>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>
>>Now, I don't know much about this stuff and had never heard that theory.
>> Given that it's not common knowledge (as far as I know) its' interesting
>> that Severian, of limited education, would just sort of understand this
>> as a common explanation of what goes on in the heart of a star.  This
>> makes me think that Wolfe is probably buying into this theory, at least
>> as far as BoTNS is concerned. Which, would, it seems make the black hole
>> a natural event, just as entropy of the universe is a natural event.
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
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>
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