The argument for Intractability

David Stockhoff · 23 Dec 2008, 02:30 · from 2008-December.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:30:26 -0500
Subject: (urth) The argument for Intractability
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I doubt the question of free will vs intervention (by whoever) is entirely binary, however. I'd guess a more important point is that neither can be dismissed. 

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:39:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Brewer <cnbrewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) The argument for Intractability
To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
Message-ID: <973085.82301.qm at web37606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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The time travel question that you guys have been hashing out seems to me important to figure out when trying to interpret the books. And I think the question of Sev's "will" is actually important. Are we getting a story of a bad guy trying to become good? (Free will) Or are we getting a story of a guy learning that his personal will is better left to higher powers? (Omniscient, omnipotent God/gods/powers/etc.)

I'm personally with Jordon on this. The "time is like an ocean" idea allows you take both of the above ideas at once and have them overlap. You have the linearity of Sev's experience, but you also have the meta-temporal perspective in which the Hierodules can manipulate things (for the Increate?).

There's still the bigger question here for me of whether this is all a holy process or just a sham of a holy process. I'm reminded of one of the story's in the Pelerines' tent (from the soldier whose name escapes me) about the proud cock. The angel comes down and says he's going to punish the cock for being too proud. But it turns out that he's wrong, and the story ends with the angel admitting that, although he's closer to the Increate than the cock, he's still infinitely distant and can only guess at His will.

If the Hierodules are like the angel, how "holy" are their designs in the end?

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