Gideon

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 08 Jan 2009, 18:39 · from 2009-January.txt.gz

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From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:39:41 -0800
Subject: (urth) Gideon
In-Reply-To: <20090108182719.GA28467 at broggs.org>
References: <009401c97160$4fce77a0$cecc4a0c@rclackey>
	<496606E5.2060908 at gmail.com>
	<321585EF-8690-40D1-A46C-31610603A7B5 at io.com>
	<20090108172727.GA15021 at broggs.org>
	<1f7617370901081011r33f995d1t5e1162fd934942e1 at mail.gmail.com>
	<20090108182719.GA28467 at broggs.org>
Message-ID: <1f7617370901081039l1d87425cqea736b87e828f7ec at mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jeffrey Brent McBeth <mcbeth at broggs.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 10:11:43AM -0800, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Jeffrey Brent McBeth <mcbeth at broggs.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Freedom being equated to being unconstrained by morality seems a bit
>> > antithetical to the Christian belief that morality is what sets you
>> > free.
>>
>> That's not the Christian belief. The Christian belief is that *Christ* is
>> what (who) sets us free.
>
> Who requires you to be moral to receive His grace.  We cannot ignore
> the mechanism for the freedom (Him), but it is the morality that is
> the part that is in our control, not Him.

I don't want to start a whole theological argument, but I think you've
reversed cause and effect here. It is not that acting morally allows
us to receive Christ's grace; rather, it is that Christ's grace allows
us to act morally. Unregenerate humanity, the "old creation,"  is
conceived of as corrupt and fallen, and incapable of doing any real
good. "In Christ I am a new creation," and capable of doing real
good.

But this is only the ancient dogmatic question of faith v. works,
which led ultimately to the great Western schism.

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
http://www.danehyoakes.com

I once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a
restaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand
Island Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett

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