The Politics Of Gene Wolfe

John Watkins · 18 Mar 2009, 15:30 · from 2009-March.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:30:17 -0400
Subject: (urth) The Politics Of Gene Wolfe
In-Reply-To: <49C11229.6060200 at verizon.net>
References: <mailman.6847.1237365859.18432.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<49C11229.6060200 at verizon.net>
Message-ID: <93d4039f0903180830v56189c7fga2a36a216a22a3d2 at mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

> I generally agree with you. But it is known that guns make IMPERSONAL
> killing easier and therefore, under the right conditions (the conditions
> being of greater importance) more common across the same situations.
> You'll have fewer gratuitous shootings of mugging victims after they have
> handed over their wallets, for example. So it is a factor.
>
While I don't doubt that guns can make killing more impersonal, I'm not so
sure that your example is well-chosen.  Point-blank gun killings, like
gratuitious killings of mugging victims, are probably not especially
impersonall.  Having talked to people who've killed with guns at point blank
range (soldiers), it's my impression that the experience is pretty
harrowing.

Then again, I expect a soldier is typically using something a little bit
more destructive than the typical mugger, so I might be wrong.



>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:41:20 -0500
> From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: (urth) The Politics Of Gene Wolfe
> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <272706220903180141h5353283fmb40a74269faabbc0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I know. My point is that ownership or non-ownership doesn't affect
> violent crime rates.  This is one of the rare occasions where I think
> both sides of the American gun control debate are off-base.
> Preventing access to guns will likely stop firearm-killings from
> happening, but I don't think it'd have a significant affect on the
> overall violent crime rate.  If you walk home and catch your
> significant other with another person, and you happen to grab a
> kitchen knife before you get your gun, it doesn't matter.  Murder is
> murder whether you do it with a gun or not.
>
> So pointing to countries with low gun ownership rates and low murder
> rates is pointing out a correlation but what is not likely a causal
> relation.  If you look at other factors, I'm going to bet that you
> find the countries with the lowest per capita murder rates have a high
> general standard of living, significant federal support programs, a
> well-balanced population, plenty of jobs and a relatively low-stress
> living environment.  I'm also willing to bet that no significant
> organized crime goes on in these countries/areas. Gun ownership (or
> the lack thereof) is a non-issue.
>
> -L.
>
>
>
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