Babbie

Chris P · 19 Mar 2009, 05:41 · from 2009-March.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: rasputin_ at hotmail.com (Chris P)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:41:43 +0000
Subject: (urth) Babbie
In-Reply-To: <DE725E3B-9662-425B-B323-33232EBE8FB4 at butcherbaker.org>
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	<DE725E3B-9662-425B-B323-33232EBE8FB4 at butcherbaker.org>
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> >> Witz: I think there's some timeline screw up here.
> >> When Horn get's permission, he's plain Horn. The Rajan writes about  
> >> it after the fact, with his Horn memories.
> >> he'd have to be lying, which is of course possible, but...
> >
> > When tBotSS starts, it is the Raja who is writing. Not only is he  
> > Horn, but he is also Silk. He has already flown to Green and died,  
> > returned to the Whorl, and come back to rule. The Raja is a  
> > Neighbor, but he has all of Horn's memories and identity within him.  
> > Same for Silk. 100% of what Horn was is within him. 100% of Silk.
> >
> > The Raja makes a choice to assert Horn within him. He could have  
> > chosen to do the same for Silk. He doesn't for a very obvious  
> > reason. When he says he's Horn, he's not lying. He's disturbed. As  
> > so often is the case with Wolfe's characters, he's telling a lie  
> > that is also the truth, but it's not the whole truth.
> >
> > He denies his Neighborness for the same reason he denies he is  
> > Silk...because if he's really "not-Horn" then Horn is dead and he  
> > killed him. It is not until after the battle that he embraces who he  
> > is at a conscious level. But he still can't bring himself to face  
> > Hoof and Hide on the day he leaves for the Whorl --as he says--  
> > because he killed their father.
> >
> > J.
> 
> Ok. I just read that old post of yours, and I think I get you more  
> clearly.
> http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/004360.html
> 
> Witz: You're NOT including Pas in your Trinity right?  just Horn/Silk/ 
> Neighbor.  Not Horn/Silk/Neighbor/Pas.

At least the way I read it, Pas did not have a soul as such. He was a... pattern, or a psyche (in the terminology I remember us using in that particular conversation) at best. Typhon's soul stayed with Typhon. Even that psyche was not exactly Typhon, because it had either changed on its own or been edited to fit its new role on the ship (not to mention the things that happened to it afterward).

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