Hut in the Jungle

Son of Witz · 01 Apr 2009, 14:08 · from 2009-April.txt.gz

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From: sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org (Son of Witz)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:08:54 -0700
Subject: (urth) Hut in the Jungle
In-Reply-To: <COL109-W23DEC4D96A1B7ED062FEE6D78A0 at phx.gbl>
References: <COL109-W23DEC4D96A1B7ED062FEE6D78A0 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <842DF32C-2B90-40D7-88DA-BA0D6657469F at butcherbaker.org>

Sharp, I think you've got some good stuff here. I can't dig in right  
now but I didn't want to leave you hanging.
the idea of the library hidden in the past, while cumbersome and  
perhaps not necessary to the plot, (or really even hinted at that I  
can think of ), is still a neat little gem of an idea.

I see a lot of spiritual metaphor in Severian's vertical movement, and  
*northernly* quest. I'll try to post something about that soon.  I'm  
gonna think it over and see if your idea affects that in any way.

~o'Witz

On Mar 31, 2009, at 11:35 AM, b sharp wrote:

>
>
>
> Son o'Witz asks-
>
>> would the Sorcerers underground pits list among those examples?
>
> Good question. The entranceway is a bit labyrinthine but I don't
> see any time travel elements involved as seen in the other examples.
>
>> Is there any reason to infer that the time travel device in the
>> vertical structure is forward only?
>
> No. Severian moves from future to present in the Last House by going
> down flights of stairs. Living in a tower near the Atrium of Time,
> Valeria and her home have antique qualities. She and her family live
> in the lower levels of her tower, below ground level. Thus I deduce  
> she
> comes from Severian's past.
>
> I think Ultan's Library is hidden in the past; twisted, old
> monkey-like Rudesind, wise in the ways of Inire, directs Severian
> to a shortcut to the Library and he has to descend to get there.  
> Cyriaca's
> uncle's (a suspiciously knowlegeable character worth investigting)  
> story
> jibes with this idea of the library hidden in the past (as does the  
> J.L.Borges
> allusion).
>
>
> Regarding Urth's relationship to Earth I'll note that in Norse  
> mythology,
> the three Norns are Urth (past), Verthandi (present) and Skuld  
> (future).
>
> Wolfe won't speak on a lot of the mysteries of his books but I think  
> on this
> one he is clear and open.Here is a quote from Gene Wolfe in an  
> interview with James
> Jordan regarding Severian and Urth's place in regard to our world:
>
>> JJ: This universe that you set in Briah, or part of it--is that our  
>> universe?
>> Or is that a universe that resurrected saints have set up in the  
>> world to come
>> as part of the cities that they made?
>
>> GW: No. I thought of it as a long past universe. Something that we  
>> are repeating
>> rather than something that we are.
>
> I think there is a similar quote like this in another interview or  
> two.
>
>
>
>> Isangoma / Inire ? hmmmm....
>
> Well when Inire is first mentioned we are told he is very old, bent  
> and twisted and
> looks like a monkey. Why would such an important character never be  
> openly shown?
> Using this physical description I think we can find him appearing  
> many times, but never
> openly. Recognizing that (like Hephaestus) in addition to being bent  
> he is adept at
> creating stuff helps the identification sometimes. Also, like so  
> many Greek Gods, he
> seems to have a thing for young, human women. Sometimes he can be  
> spotted that way.
>
>
>
> I'll mention that toward the end of UotNS, Severian sees a woman  
> being escorted by soldiers
> along the Path of Air. This woman is surely related to the Contessa  
> in Dr. Talos' play but
> other hints tie her to Catherine AND to the dead woman in the grave  
> at the very beginning of
> Severian's story. Leaving other implications to dangle, I'll  
> conjecture that the Path of Air
> leads to the top of a tower in the Citadel. Going from top to the  
> bottom of this tower brings
> a person back in time from Flood Day to the time just before  
> Severian becomes Captain of
> Apprentices.
>
>
> Anyway, here is the link to the James Jordan interview. http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2tmhh/wolfejbj.html#urth2
> Jordan's questions are so intensely religious I think Wolfe lets his  
> guard down a little more
> than usual. Fine with me!
>
> -bsharp
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