Urth Net

← back to the conversation

"Principlesofgovernaaance"Gene Wolfe's Politics

James Wynn · 02 Apr 2009, 18:01 · from 2009-April.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:01:15 -0500
Subject: (urth) "Principlesofgovernaaance"Gene Wolfe's Politics
In-Reply-To: <W9272031606160211238693399@webmail11>
References: <W9272031606160211238693399@webmail11>
Message-ID: <FE7DC3593D2843D88787BCE1CC7832BD@eMachinePC>

> ok, is the last one meant to be a joke about our current situation?
> Abstraction, largely ideal.

Essentially it means that the attachment is to the representative system 
divorced from the representatives themselves.

> On one hand, I don't understand how "Attachment to" is governance.
>Are the people attached, or is the governance attached?

I believe "attachment to" equals "the authority upon which the governing 
body governs the governed."

> Let me rephrase?  This seems like a sort of religious right position
>(maybe I'm totally wrong)

You're wrong so far as I know.

>So, would anyone toss away democracy
>in favor of a monarch? How can this notion not be "largely ideal"
>when it hinges upon the character of a single person?

Well, Severian doesn't call this Divine Right but Divine Right king would be 
a subset of this.

The Athenians did it with regularity. The Romans did it with Augustus (and 
made him a god). The Germans did it in the 30s.  The Russians allowed their 
short-lived democracy to be overthrown by the Bolsheviks and soon devoted 
themselves to a personality cult centered around Stalin. It happens all the 
time when the stakes become high enough and a democracy lacks (or fails to 
tolerate) genuine leaders the people trust to make hard choices untainted by 
personal aggrandizement/enrichment.  It's something to think about in the US 
right now with public approval of congress steadily closing in on 10% for 
the last 4 years or so.

> I'm not sure if I'm making this clear. I'm trying to understand how this 
> can be considered the highest state of governance in a practical, 
> non-ideal world.

Well, Severian doesn't say Divine Right is the highest. He says it is the 
first after Anarchy. Perhaps that explains how Democracy moves to Divine 
Right.

J.
 


An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net