Gnosticism in BotNS

Lane Haygood · 09 Apr 2009, 03:01 · from 2009-April.txt.gz

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From: lhaygood at gmail.com (Lane Haygood)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:01:52 -0500
Subject: (urth) Gnosticism in BotNS
In-Reply-To: <49DD22DC.9090702 at verizon.net>
References: <mailman.1.1239224881.14937.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<49DD22DC.9090702 at verizon.net>
Message-ID: <272706220904082001s16053017ub81f298085d2a082 at mail.gmail.com>

Backwards.  Manichaeanism was influenced by Zoroastrianism, because it
was a Persian form of gnosticism.

Gnosticism actually applies to lots of syncretic religious beliefs
that flourished around the Levant and Fertile Crescent areas.  There
are several different strains, such as Greek/Egyptian (which was in
turn heavily influenced by Hellenstic philosophy, in particular
neoplatonism) and Aryan/Persian, which borrowed more from Eastern
mystical traditions.

I think that while there are several gnostic-like ideas in the Solar
Cycle, Wolfe seemingly pirated lots of obscure beliefs from that
region, like kabbalah as well (Briah, Yesod, etc.) as well as
Judeo-Christian mystic traditions.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:
> Gnosticism was influenced by Zoroastrianism, which is Manichaean, so it's
> certainly dualistic. But to Wolfe, one way is not better than the other, or
> any other way. All paths are potential paths to leaving the false and
> finding the good and true. Severian's interest in Vodalism certainly makes
> him a Seeker for Truth, even if Vodalus himself is false.
>
> The gnostic "option," _I_ think, is simply a powerful way of suggesting that
> goal directly. That's why I like the sun/stars imagery---we think we see
> more in the day, but of course we don't see very far. The stars are
> there---if you look.
>
> Every hero and every human being has to discover for him or herself what is
> true and what it false, and frequently what seems true is false, and the
> reverse. So the main point is just that you look---look beyond what is
> obvious, consider that there may be data you are not factoring into your
> analysis.
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:40:48 +0000
> From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
> Subject: Re: (urth) Gnosticism in BotNS
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Message-ID: <W158121153117301239216048 at webmail8>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>> >
>> >This is classic gnostic imagery. Since gnosticism posits a false local
>> > >Creator and a true universal Creator, Vodalus seems to align himself >with
>> > true knowledge. However. his knowledge is probably to be regarded >as false,
>> > if not Satanic, even though the true god is more like the >hidden one than
>> > like the light-of-day one. We could probably usefully >compare the
>> > libertines' anticipation of sexual experience through the >alzabo with
>> > Severian's mastery of self through the alzabo. Severian >supplants and
>> > supercedes both autarchs by conciliating between their >desires for Man.
>> >
>> >Remember the inscription in the mausoleum: Look, and See. God must be
>> > >sought, not received. The Conciliator also is associated with gnostic
>> > >imagery (the Black Sun). Silk, in promoting the Outsider, plays a >similar
>> > role. So Wolfe basically uses gnostic imagery, I think, to >create a tension
>> > between failed approaches to the Increate that is >resolved by the "proper"
>> > approach. Something like that.
>>
>
>
>
> This is the main thing I get out of the Gnostic theology I've looked into.
> It strikes me that people critiquing it as mere "duality" is a bit off base.
> I think, at a really simple level, it's saying "Align yourself to the true
> God, and not this False Creator and his limited creation." ?Which definitely
> jibes with the way Wolfe uses this imagery. ?Of course, The Long Sun is a
> perfect metaphor of this idea. ?A false God and his little dominion.
>
> ~witz
>
>
>
>
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