PF as YA

Matthew Weber · 20 Apr 2009, 16:32 · from 2009-April.txt.gz

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From: palaeologos at gmail.com (Matthew Weber)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:32:32 -0700
Subject: (urth) PF as YA
In-Reply-To: <851104.29345.qm at web63902.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <49EC94EC.2050200 at colby.edu>
	<851104.29345.qm at web63902.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e815e3c90904200932s5ef90cadx23f894f603289e14 at mail.gmail.com>

Eastern Catholic (and Orthodox) priests may marry before their ordination,
but married men cannot be bishops in either jurisdiction.

In the various Anglican and Old Catholic jurisdictions, any clergy may marry
at any time.  The more conservative will not allow divorce and remarriage,
but there are otherwise no restrictions on wedlock, nor any requirement of
celibacy.

The Roman Catholic Church has, on occasion, reordained married Anglican
clergymen into the RC priesthood (the official RC position is that Anglican
orders are not valid, so they are re-ordained if they are to function
clerically).  Otherwise, only perpetual deacons are permitted to be married,
and they must be married before they are ordained.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Fred Kiesche <recursive_loop at yahoo.com>wrote:

> If you are a deacon (we have four in our RC parish) and your wife dies,
> you've made a committment to become a priest...
>
> F.P. Kiesche III
> "Ah Mr. Gibbon, another damned, fat, square book. Always, scribble,
> scribble, scribble, eh?" (The Duke of Gloucester, on being presented with Volume
> 2 of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.) Blogging at The Lensman's
> Children <http://theeternalgoldenbraid.blogspot.com/> and TexasBestGrok<http://texasbestgrok.mu.nu/>
> !
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 4/20/09, "Fernando Q. Gouv?a" <fqgouvea at colby.edu>* wrote:
>
> From: "Fernando Q. Gouv?a" <fqgouvea at colby.edu>
> Subject: Re: (urth) PF as YA
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 11:29 AM
>
> I don't quite remember the rules, but isn't there some special provision
> for men who were married before becoming priests?
>
> Fernando
>
> Allan Anderson wrote:
> > Henry Eissler wrote:
> >> Fernando Q. Gouv?a wrote:
> >>
> >>> See my other comment about "YA". I'm not sure what
> that means any more. But I still think the themes in PF are appropriate for
> young adults, and especially young men. This seems to be a concern of
> Wolfe's. Our society seems no longer interested in "manliness",
> but Wolfe is.
> >>>
> >>    I think I would have worded that differently, but that in the end
> we'd be talking about the same thing.  I agree.  I hadn't thought the
> novel was intended for a younger audience, but it could have been.  I think the
> spectre of "Treasure Island" helps that impression.
> > I should ask my sister the youth librarian what she thinks. She's
> pretty much of the, "hey, if it gets them to read, it's okay"
> school when it comes to sex and swashbuckling in novels. But would it draw in
> and reward a Young Adult audience, that slippery category?
> >>
> >>> That is my reading as well, though I think that we're also
> expected to see that some of Chris's choices are pretty bad choices. The
> business at the end about the vow of celibacy is a particularly discomforting
> one.
> >>    I realize now that I was somewhat stating the obvious.
> >>    I didn't get the part about Chris making bad choices.  His plan
> to break the vow of celibacy, for instance- didn't disturb me.  At that
> point Chris was long past having decided that his own relationship with God was
> unique.  Perhaps the danger of that is part of what the book tries to explore.
> But also, the woman in question was his wife.  Why he made such a vow in the
> first place, I don't know; but the idea of breaking it bothered him enough
> to mention it in his "confession".
> >>
> > You make some very good points! Hey, do you think he took his vow
> partially because he thought, "there can be no other woman for me but
> Novia"? IIRC, he doesn't figure out that he can possibly go back until
> after doing so; I'm not 100% on this chronology, though.
> >
> > It's still creepy. Hey, you know that old monk guy who's living
> with you? Well, he's really the same person as your dashing teenage pirate
> husband! On the up side, you have someone to help take care of the baby
> (possibly with a lot of loot). On the down side, you've traded in your
> handsome young man for someone much older (something you ran away from, if I
> recall). Plus, there's this priest who keeps checking out your ass.
> >
> > At what point does Chris wearing the cassock become seriously deceitful?
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>
> -- =============================================================
> Fernando Q. Gouvea             Carter Professor of Mathematics   Colby College
>                    Editor, MAA FOCUS
> 5836 Mayflower Hill               Editor, MAA Reviews
> Waterville, ME 04901              http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL/19/http://www.colby.edu/~fqgouvea <http://www.colby.edu/%7Efqgouvea>
>
> It is necessary for the welfare of society that genius should be privileged to
> utter sedition, to blaspheme, to outrage good taste, to corrupt the youthful
> mind, and generally to scandalize one's uncles.  -- George Bernard Shaw
>
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-- 
Matt +

If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in
democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the
government to the utmost.
Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), Politics, bk. IV, ch. 4
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