PF as YA

Matthew Weber · 21 Apr 2009, 04:33 · from 2009-April.txt.gz

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From: palaeologos at gmail.com (Matthew Weber)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:33:51 -0700
Subject: (urth) PF as YA
In-Reply-To: <988282.64235.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <e815e3c90904201442l76aa96c4o941d0bb7811d231d at mail.gmail.com>
	<988282.64235.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e815e3c90904202133w15d6c491h2c6c6437ce46e646 at mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: (urth) PF as YA
> > To: jerry_friedman at yahoo.com, "The Urth Mailing List" <
> urth at lists.urth.net>
> > Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 3:42 PM
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>wrote:
> > > --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
> > <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > The relevant question here -- and it's one
> > which I
> > > > don't know the
> > > > answer to -- is,
> > > > "what if a widower becomes a priest and it
> > turns out
> > > > his wife isn't dead after
> > > > all?" My guess is that this would become an
> > exception,
> > > > because neither the
> > > > sacrament of matrimony nor that of holy orders
> > can be
> > > > "undone."
> > >
> > > As I recall, there's such a thing as a conditional
> > baptism.
> > > You're making me wonder whether there's a
> > conditional
> > > ordination in cases where there's some doubt about
> > whether
> > > the wife is really dead.  Of course, if there's
> > much
> > > doubt, I imagine the widower couldn't be ordained,
> > but
> > > what about the case of a shipwreck or plane crash
> > where
> > > it's practically certain that no one survived, but
> > no
> > > bodies were recovered?
> ...
>
> > No, a conditional ordination would be when there's
> > doubt that a person has
> > been ordained validly.  Sacraments *sub conditione *are
> > administered when
> > there is some kind of doubt as to the validity of a
> > previous bestowal (as
> > also with baptism or confirmation; the RCC will
> > conditionally re-baptize or
> > confirm if an initiate is unsure whether he has been
> > previously baptized or
> > confirmed, or if the person has been baptized with a
> > non-Trinitarian formula).
> ...
>
> Thanks for the information.  It seems that if they could
> baptize on that condition they could administer other
> sacraments on other conditions, but I believe you that
> they don't.
>
>
Oh, they do; but an ordination sub conditione isn't the circumstance of
"we're ordaining you presuming that you're single," but the condition of
"we're re-ordaining you because there is reason to doubt your first
ordination."  In other words, an ordination isn't invalidated if the cleric
is found to be married after all (and never could be).

-- 
Matt +

Inferiors revolt in order that they may be equal, and equals that they may
be superior.  Such is the state of mind which creates revolutions.
Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), Politics, bk. V, ch. 2
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