The Devil in a Forest

brunians at brunians.org · 19 May 2009, 14:47 · from 2009-May.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:47:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (urth) The Devil in a Forest
In-Reply-To: <4A12C26E.1070002 at verizon.net>
References: <mailman.68358.1242741493.12296.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<4A12C26E.1070002 at verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1957.67.142.130.41.1242744422.squirrel at brunians.org>

Actually, "Wolfe is pro-gun" has the ring of truth to it, as does "Wolfe
is a fiscal conservative". He has his point of view on things. People who
agree with him generally have no trouble seeing it.

People who (a) like Wolfe's fiction and (b) hold political views very
different from his tend to (I have noticed) jump through interesting hoops
whilst explaining that Wolfe does not actually believe what everyone else
seems to think he does. Anything but that. They will deny it at length.
Like most things, this is amusing once it stops being annoying.





.


> I think there is more to it than just how sneaky his propaganda is. Sure,
> Wolfe is propagandizing, as always---but he doesn't just propagandize for
> a narrow segment of the political spectrum, and he rarely makes things as
> black and white and baldly allegorical as you seem to suggest. Rather, he
> asks questions and examines the moral aspects of the range of answers.
>
> Almost by definition, an interpretation of Wolfe that keeps it
> simple---says "Wolfe is pro-gun," for example---is going to be inadequate,
> even if not flatly wrong.
>
> In other words, don't lose the forest for the trees, even if there is a
> devil hiding in them.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:41:30 -0500
> From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: (urth) The Devil in a Forest
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Message-ID: <322A6386203C478F871C5C0BEAD76770 at eMachinePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
>
>> >"Propaganda" may be just the right term for Wolfe.
>> >Originally it was a term used by the Vatican for the
>> >propagation of the faith. It's come to have a cheaper meaning.
>>
>
> I use the term "propaganda" to mean "the attempt to persuade at the
> non-rational level". It has a bad rap because it is typically so
> inartfully
> done. The idea is to have the audience only stew in the well-seasoned
> juices
> of the argument so they rationally convince themselves at a later time.
> You
> have to _demonstrate_ while exhibiting the self-control never _to tell_.
> "The Devil in a Forest" does that. If the work is essentially framed in a
> "message", rather than metaphor, the audience is forced to approach the
> propaganda on a rational level and it loses its much of its power. For
> example, Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land" is fantastic Communist
> propaganda (if you know all the verses). Pete Seeger's stuff is
> hack-work--if he had a hammer, he'd hit you over the head with it.
>
>
>> >...tDiaF ends with a miracle -- the only "fantasy" element in the
>> book...
>>
>
> I even wonder whether it *is* the only fantasy element. There are subtle
> hints that the stories of Mother Cloot being able to fly might not be mere
> superstition at all.  And at least twice it is noted that she *is*
> unexpectedly light. It is a tip to the hat that Evil is also not merely a
> fantasy element. Still, certainly the only _overtly_ non-rational event is
> the abbe's healing.
>
> J.
>
>
>
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