Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)

Jeffrey Brent McBeth · 20 May 2009, 22:41 · from 2009-May.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: mcbeth at broggs.org (Jeffrey Brent McBeth)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:41:48 -0400
Subject: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again)
In-Reply-To: <377E7976-34D9-46EA-BEFE-C0CA37CBDF4C at comcast.net>
References: <D67BBCB673F4491BB8DC3A37289BD563@eMachinePC>
	<002BF131-691F-4247-B56E-19C9D86BDA6D at io.com>
	<50586EEE2CA14862AA7A038867E0B211@eMachinePC>
	<9ABFD473-EF4F-44FA-8C53-9A140080E64F at io.com>
	<2D85DC7E1002442C9FFC385EBA1BB3A0@eMachinePC>
	<15038.67.142.130.18.1242766720.squirrel at brunians.org>
	<1f7617370905191401w3e7cfd18h3684f3ec0f25bc5e at mail.gmail.com>
	<0C649F1C-5A4E-4B1D-A8A7-1DBDE9254FD0 at comcast.net>
	<11519.67.142.130.18.1242778047.squirrel at brunians.org>
	<377E7976-34D9-46EA-BEFE-C0CA37CBDF4C at comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20090520224148.GI29453 at broggs.org>

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 05:58:54PM -0400, Steven wrote:
>
>> Well, I'd think you'd have to minimize the shame-heaping aspects if  
>> you
>> wanted to adapt the system for general use, but that doesn't mean it 
>> can't
>> be done.
>>
>> Doesn't change the principal, I don't think.
>
> Correct.  What it does is minimize the outflow of funds for that  
> purpose.  Most of the money the church collects goes to mission outreach 
> and new building projects.

Perhaps things have changed a little since you were last active, here
is more or less how things are now within the Mormon church.

"Fast Offerings", which are the funds the church collects for member
welfare (and humanitarian) aid are separate from tithing.  You are
encouraged to pay a "generous fast offering" once a month, but you are
never asked if you do so, and there are no regulatory penalties for
not.  These funds are kept separate from tithing funds, and never flow
from the "fast offering" pile to the tithing pile.  The standard
metric is to donate the cost of two meals once a month.  People are
also encouraged to donate time to the churches many farms, canneries,
and distribution centers (but there is no record keeping or accounting
of that donation).

Tithing primarily goes to support the day-to-day operations of the
church.  Its buildings, construction, missions, etc.  Tithing also
assists in paying for out-of-church humanitarian.  Money has gone from
tithing to assist in short term needs, like the humanitarian aid after
the typhoon in Indonesia.  Once a year at the end of the year, you are
privately asked by your ecclesiastical leader if you are a full tithe
payer prior to receiving an accounting of your donations to show to
the tax man (your answer does not affect the ease of getting that
account).  Once every other year, if you wish, you may apply for a two
year pass to enter the temple.  The temple is separate from weekly
services, and in many areas of the world it is not uncommon for people
to never go.  As part of the process, you are asked privately (without
recourse to records) if you pay tithing.  

I've been on three sides of the coin.  Receiving aid, giving aid, and
administering aid (and so am hardly an innocent/unbiased bystander).
Shaming people for receiving aid is strictly against church policies,
and the member(s) that did that did wrong.  All information concerning
welfare receipt is also supposed to be kept strictly confidential by
those administering and giving the aid.  People are encouraged to find
employment sufficient to support their families, and the congregations
usually have a person trained to provide job-search support and many
people trained in self-sufficiency techniques.

There are problems (as all human-run endeavours have), but by and
large it seems work (from my view in the trenches).  I've helped in
poor congregations that have as much as 80+% of the families receiving
aid, and while the strain on the bishop and relief society (the male
and female leader respectively) is immense, it still seems to work.

But, we are way way off topic here, unless Gene suddenly switches
affiliation :)  Part of why I love reading him is that I feel he gives
me insight into the nature of my own faith (I would include Chesterton
in that same group)

Jeff
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over 
 the man who cannot read them."
 -- Mark Twain
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20090520/a481fa0f/attachment.pgp>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net