Silk for calde blog: Wolfe thesis

Jerry Friedman · 22 Sep 2009, 14:44 · from 2009-September.txt.gz

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From: jerry_friedman at yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 07:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (urth) Silk for calde blog: Wolfe thesis
In-Reply-To: <3306B551-9B74-41C4-A201-76CE02ADEAF7 at optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <57247.88837.qm at web50703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Zachary Kendal <zackendal at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On 22/09/2009, at 3:34 PM, Jerry
> Friedman wrote:
> 
> > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM,
> >> Gwern Branwen <gwern0 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Seems like a worthwhile thesis, although I wonder
> whether
> >> those 2
> >> priest archetypes are quite so universal - such a
> >> categorization would
> >> have difficulty with Frank Herbert, I think.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ... and Arthur Clarke ("The Star")
> > 
> > It's been a long time, but I have the impression the
> > narrator's faith was shaken, not stirred.
> > 
> > Do the priests or monks in "The Nine Billion Names of
> > God" count?
> > 
> >> ... and Dan
> >> Simmons (Hyperion) ... and Mary Doria Russell (The
> Sparrow)
> >> ... and Peter F. Hamilton (the Night's Dawn
> trilogy) ...
> >> and Walter M. Miller (A Canticle for Leibowitz)
> ... and Tony
> >> Boucher ("The Quest for St. Aquin") ... and ...
> > 
> > You've got some points there (as best I remember
> those
> > books and stories).
> > 
> >> The makings of at least one excellent doctoral
> thesis lies
> >> in the image of the (Catholic) priest in SF.
> However, this
> >> person's thesis ain't it.
> > 
> > Definitely not, if I'm right in thinking this is an
> > undergrad thesis.? However, hope is a virtue, I'm
> told.
> > Maybe he'll get out of his stereotypes by doing the
> > research.
> > 
> > Jerry Friedman
> 
> Ouch!

I'm sorry I caused you to say that.  I would defend my
use of "stereotypes", but after your clarification, it
seems pointless.

> But I should probably introduce myself before taking
> up my own defence: Hi, I'm Zac, and, yes, I'm doing a thesis
> on Gene Wolfe. I know I really should have introduced myself
> earlier - before my blog became a topic of discussion (you
> couldn't have known I was lurking around the Urth mailing
> list) - but I was a little intimidated by how much everyone
> here seems to know about Wolfe's work.
> 
> Anyway, I'll re-post here what I wrote on my blog in
> defence of my thesis topic (slightly edited to fit this
> context):
...
 
> "I should have been clearer in my original post, but these
> crude 'stereotypes' are what I *currently* have the
> impression are dominant. I gather, from the limited research
> I have already done, that most SF with priests as
> protagonists (not peripheral or minor characters) either use
> the priest to challenge (or shake or debunk) the priest's
> faith, or to have it reaffirmed. These two categories are,
> of course, generalisations.
> 
> "I *plan* to argue that Wolfe finds a middle ground between
> these two *dominant* approaches to the priest. That he
> manages to do both debunk *and* affirm aspects of
> Catholicism (ritual vs. spiritual?). I do not plan to argue
> that no other author has ever done the same and challenged
> these two approaches.
> 
> "Thank you very much for your recommended texts - I'm
> currently in the process of planning my summer reading,


Speaking of stereotypes, I thought, "Summer reading?
Isn't this due in 2010?  Oh.  Never mind."

> "It may also have been unclear in my post that this is an
> undergraduate thesis - a 15,000 word thesis that I will do
> in 2010 for my honours degree (we do things differently in
> Australia, I think).
...

Undergrad theses are known here in America--I wrote one.
(I trust yours well be better than mine was.)

> I realise that it is not very fair that I was reading these
> posts without your knowing, and I apologise.

I hope that was irony.  We all know people lurk on
mailing lists, and you linked to this list at your site,
so there's nothing to apologize for.  I don't know
whether I need to apologize for using a less harsh word
at your blog than I did here--no harm was done by my
two faces, since you saw both.

> I would warmly
> welcome any constructive criticism that anyone might have.

You're in the right place.

> I
> am passionate about Wolfe's writing, and have been wanting
> to write on his work since I started my degree.

Still in the right place.

Anyway, best of luck with this project!

Jerry Friedman

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