The Sorcerer's House Questions (Major Spoilers)

John Watkins · 19 Apr 2010, 16:00 · from 2010-April.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:00:38 -0400
Subject: (urth) The Sorcerer's House Questions (*Major Spoilers*)
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Message-ID: <x2r93d4039f1004190900ia911dd03s91c2a769189c2c84 at mail.gmail.com>

Well, that was right in front of me, Craig, and I missed it.  We've been
focused on the effect of Bax's lies on others, not their effect on himself.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:59 AM, John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Craig Brewer <cnbrewer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  Yep.
>> And a torturer can become a savior by acting like one.
>> And it adds a more meaningful dimension to Horn becoming Silk.
>> And a con-man can turn from the "evil twin" to the "good twin," etc., etc.
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com>
>>
>> *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
>> *Sent:* Mon, April 19, 2010 10:44:13 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: (urth) The Sorcerer's House Questions (*Major Spoilers*)
>>
>> My own take on New Sun is that the aliens are the dupes of the Increate.
>> I have almost no textual support for this, except for the conversation in
>> Long Sun in which someone (Incus?) says that if a demon pretends to be a god
>> the god will convent them into himself.  While Incus isn't necessarily the
>> best guide, it's confirmed by the Outsider in Exodus:
>>
>> "As I am claiming Kypris even now because love always proceeds from me,
>> real love, true love.  First romance."
>> So if the Hieros are evil aliens duping Severian by pretending to be
>> angels and archangels in the service of the Increate, they'll wind up being
>> angels and archangels in the service of the Increate, at least indirectly
>> and eventually.
>>   On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Craig Brewer <cnbrewer at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>>    >>One thing that's significant about Wolfe's reliance on unreliable
>>> narrators, and I think this is most explicit in Long Sun and Short Sun,
>>> >>is that he's mirroring an >important aspect of Christian religious
>>> faith.  Believers, for the most part, rely upon the Gospels, accounts
>>> >>that are, by their natural, unreliable.  Wolfe seems to think that this
>>> is or can be a rational choice, but he's not interested in soft-pedalling
>>> >>the complications this entails.  But maybe there's a Chesteronian idea
>>> at work as well, which is that stories that are *compelling *are more
>>> >>likely to be true--that human beings naturally seek to order things
>>> into coherent and interesting narratives because we think that such
>>> >>narratives best help us to make sense of the world.
>>>
>>> I like this a lot.
>>>
>>> It also speaks to Severian's dilemma: could he just be a dupe of alien
>>> creatures AND an actual messiah figure? Even false things can be true.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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