Wolfe as Heretic
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 19 May 2010, 20:54
· from 2010-May.txt.gz
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything
here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer
encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the
archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those
repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is
for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site,
so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:54:47 -0700
Subject: (urth) Wolfe as Heretic
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTil6l0l0u4Tolr-BIjc-P7obU49S2pmW9vvTLzeN at mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT123-W43FBDA10A167D2011AE70CFE20 at phx.gbl>
<4BF3F69D.5060501 at gmail.com>
<AANLkTil6l0l0u4Tolr-BIjc-P7obU49S2pmW9vvTLzeN at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikF8iBDIoBV29K3Al7FywvMxvrK6y0zT1agIZst at mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:43 PM, James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wolfe differs in accepting that the ancient gods might not always be
> malevolent, but potentially even good. He might have received this
> from (or had it confirmed by) the Anglican C.S. Lewis who said almost
> the same thing. (And in "That Hideous Strength" he portrayed the gods
> Venus and Mercury as powers not positively aligned to the rebellious
> Lord of Earth,) This all sounds like something Chesterton might have
> opined, but I can't find anywhere he did.
Not just Venus and Mercury, but all the "divine spirits" of the
traditional Planets.
> But then again, CS Lewis's view of pagan gods portrayed in "The Last
> Battle" is certainly at odds with Paul's. So maybe it is all
> heretical.
Au contraire: to whatever extent the idea may be at odds with Paul's,
the idea that good acts offered to false gods seems to align perfectly
with what Jesus had to say on the subject, i.e., the Sheep and the
Goats ("When did I ever see you ...")
> The Fathers and the Biblical Prophets seem to have all agreed that
> sacrifices to these powers is without practical value. This is
> different from Latro's world.
True; but then, the Fathers seem to have done away with the idea of
sacrifice entirely, other than self-sacrifice (including the sacrifice
of the Eucharist, which is the ultimate self-sacrifice).
> Is it heretical to believe that that magic (defined as prayers and
> sacrifices powers who are not God) *works" even if you believe it is
> something that is wrong or hurtful to do? .I met a Christian erstwhile
> fortune-teller who said it definitely did work for him. But he wasn't
> a theologian and his opinions on the source of its efficacy were more
> like Paul's than Wolfe's; so, I guess that doesn't really prove
> anything.
Not only is it not-heretical to suppose that magic works: it is quite
possible to suppose that working some kinds of magic is not inherently
"sinful." The idea that it is is relatively recent, coming in with the
late Middle Ages/early Renaissance; before that a clear distinction
was made between _magia_ and _goetia_, magic and sorcery. The one had
to do with using the inherent laws of created nature (as in alchemy),
while the other was dealing with spirits (and was clearly forbidden).
> I suppose we'd have to drill down farther into what Wolfe truly
> believes and how strongly he believes it to know if he's a heretic or
> not. Put him on the rack.
I'll fetch the comfy chair and the soft cushion.
--
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net