traveling north

brunians at brunians.org · 03 Jun 2010, 11:55 · from 2010-June.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:55:49 -0400
Subject: (urth) traveling north
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Message-ID: <320199b1d7232bdf86a5c90fcfacf6d3.squirrel at brunians.org>

That's my take on it.

.


> The Mystical Body of Christ, in Catholic Doctrine, is the Church.  The
> teaching can be found in Ephesians:
>
> "15 But doing the truth in charity, we may in all things grow up in him
> who
> is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body, being compacted and
> fitly joined together, by what every joint supplies, according to the
> operation in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body, unto
> the
> edifying of itself in charity."
>
> But what is the Church?  The Church Militant, the worldly administrative
> body headquartered in Rome doesn't exist in Severian's world, so that's a
> poor guess as to Wolfe's meaning.  The Catholic Encyclopedia, however,
> gives
> that meaning as the third definition of the term *ecclesia.  *This is the
> first:
>
> "It is employed to denote all who, from the beginning of the world, have
> believed in the one true God, and have been made His children by grace."
>
> Clearly, this is Wolfe's intention.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 7:06 AM, <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
>
>> Sounds plausible.
>>
>> Wolfe told me that Severian is part of the Mystical Body of Christ.
>>
>> Does this fit in with that?
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> > Among the things I think the story is meant to show
>> >
>> > 1)  If Jesus Christ didn't exist, we'd have to invent a roughly
>> similar
>> > figure,
>> >
>> > 2)  If that roughly similar figure was a flawed human being, the
>> resulting
>> > religion would be considerable worse (Wolfe cheats here--Severian
>> isn't a
>> > great sage or moral teacher--the Christ-figure of his world's religion
>> was
>> > generally not a nice man), and
>> >
>> > 3)  Because all faiths are salvific insofar as they participate in
>> truth,
>> > even the mock-Christianity of the New Sun world leads to genuine
>> moments
>> > of
>> > grace.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:53 AM, <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Severian is the Conciliator.
>> >>
>> >> Or am I missing something?
>> >>
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree. The Conciliator was the "jesus" of Urth. And that already
>> >> > happened in the past of Urth.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 21:00:40 -0400
>> >> >> From: eugene.zar at gmail.com
>> >> >> To: urth at lists.urth.net
>> >> >> Subject: Re: (urth) traveling north
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Lee Berman
>> <severiansola at hotmail.com
>> >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > FWIW, my opinion is that Urth is presented as less spiritually
>> >> >> > advanced than Earth, notably lacking two important earthly
>> >> >> > spiritual events, The Flood and the Coming of Jesus. Thus,
>> >> >> > Severian has his roles to play. The Urth we are reading about
>> >> >> > is much older than our current Earth but being stunted in its
>> >> >> > spiritual growth is still troubled by some of the ills which
>> >> >> > plagued our pagan ancestors.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wasn't the Conciliator the Jesus-like figure? Severian seemed to
>> me
>> >> to
>> >> >> be very much non-divine. Quite the opposite, he very specifically
>> >> >> comes from a very dark place, and rises to his status as savior.
>> >> >> Severian's respect for the Increate and the sun itself is apparent
>> >> >> early in the book, so I suspect Severian's story was meant to, in
>> >> >> part, show where the spiritual path you claim is lacking leads:
>> >> >> salvation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >> >> > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple
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>> >> >> with Hotmail.
>> >> >> >
>> >>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Eugene Z
>> >> >> http://blog.eugenez.net
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