traveling north

Matthew Weber · 04 Jun 2010, 02:42 · from 2010-June.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: palaeologos at gmail.com (Matthew Weber)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 19:42:58 -0700
Subject: (urth) traveling north
In-Reply-To: <4C08638F.4020608 at io.com>
References: <SNT123-W17F478B464F0A2A2D619BECFD10 at phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTin3rMIbdFlB_Ts9oQg54a5xHmUMyoxL-4Rly5wb at mail.gmail.com>
	<COL105-W6B0E3F09D93E0A7430DAF85D10 at phx.gbl>
	<07e417fccdd43f81f01ae6443657010a.squirrel at brunians.org>
	<COL105-W6542F88CE562742D51698485D10 at phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinfvuimH5NosPxyCjh7_vFr6euHaYza0hjXvtUa at mail.gmail.com>
	<48de6c2703ee12fc6c29c83baa351a8a.squirrel at brunians.org>
	<AANLkTimZFzds7pSbN442JqRrcMclom0cjXoW75AkHR26 at mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikKZFubdJP6qYaFkm37SrSmfe3LpkiNb55M2TRe at mail.gmail.com>
	<4C080D71.1050005 at io.com>
	<13760e59190cf40b9c651ab10b7ccb24.squirrel at brunians.org>
	<AANLkTilcPsGnsYfCVSHa0zHONymY8oin0y0bugI90kDk at mail.gmail.com>
	<4C08638F.4020608 at io.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinSz_OlErPRnA2Qsdf7X4WxSnajI-zJjLawMWlY at mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:

> On 6/3/2010 8:58 PM, John Watkins wrote:
>
>> I agree with this.  Actually, Mormonism has significant Arian elements
>> too, and Mormonism and Islam have a lot in common.
>>
>
> I still have a problem calling anything non-trinitarian Christianity. It
> would be like calling the Nation of Islam the same as Islam, despite it
> maintianing the divinity of its founder, Wallace Fard Muhammad.
>
>
I completely agree--however, my agreement is coming from within orthodox
Christianity, so it's far from academically disinterested!  Many students of
religion solve the problem of who is and who isn't a Christian by simply
considering everyone who claims the name to be one.  I understand why, but
to stretch terms so far makes them nearly meaningless, in my opinion.

In response to an earlier post on Arianism, I have always thought that the
Jehovah's Witnesses were the closest modern equivalent.  The creators and
subcreators of Mormonism always call to mind, for me, the demiurges, aeons
and emanations of Gnosticism.

Islam is a more complicated case, I think.  It's very likely that Muhammad
considered himself a sort of Christian.  I have always thought that the
Iconoclastic movement, and later the Swiss Reformers, partook somewhat of
the Islamic ethos.  Certainly Calvin has more in common with Muhammad than
with most of the Fathers...

-- 
Matt +

Each of us bears his own Hell.
Virgil [Publius Vergilius Maro] (70-19 B.C.), Aeneid, bk. VI, l. 743
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20100603/d70c2f43/attachment-0001.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net