Appearances of Inire

John Watkins · 01 Jul 2010, 12:18 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

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From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:18:43 -0400
Subject: (urth) Appearances of Inire
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Right.

Although now I will say such a thing.  Tzadkiel presents himself not as the
Outsider but as His agent.  Arguably the most important question of the
series is whether Tzadkiel is lying.  I think there are in fact three
options:

1)  Tzadkiel is, like a Christian archangel, more or less in direct contact
with the will of the deity.  Thus he/she is to be completely trusted and is
a more or less incontrovertible moral authority.
2)  Tzadkiel is a creepy insectoid alien thing and a liar.  The pretentions
of religion are a means of controlling the human race.
3)  Tzadkiel is a "higher" being in some meaningful sense but remains
metaphysically removed from the divine, like the angel in "The Cock and the
Angel."  His/her belief in the Increate and desire to do its will is
sincere, and to that end he/she is just doing the best he/she can, but like
the angel in the story Tzadkiel remains fallible and infinitely removed from
the mind of the Increate.

I go back and forth between 2) and 3) myself.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:01 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

> No one said anyone was pretending anything. It was a general theoretical
> observation.
>
> brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>
>>  Who usurping where?
>>
>> Which archon is pretending to be the Outsider? Tzadkiel?
>>
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> No, the definition of usurping demands it. So does the concept of a
>>> local archon pretending to be the Outsider. You can explain it any way
>>> you want, but that's the concept.
>>>
>>> Think Tolkien.
>>>
>>> brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe for you.
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The question, then, is whether such delegation occurred---or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't buy it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God delegates all the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeff Wilson wrote (30-06-2010 16:04):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/30/2010 9:24 AM, James Wynn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's that thing about only God being creator.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is that relevant here? Do you prefer that people use "assemble"
>>>>>>>>> instead of "create"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's relevant because a race that creates a (slave) race is usurping
>>>>>>>> the privilege of the Creator -- is in fact acting in daemonic
>>>>>>>> manner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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