Tzadkiel/Melek Taus

Mr Thalassocrat · 09 Jul 2010, 12:13 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: thalassocrat08 at gmail.com (Mr Thalassocrat)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:43:49 +0930
Subject: (urth) Tzadkiel/Melek Taus
In-Reply-To: <5468CF4DE0B74D4CBF1097F9822150AA@jill>
References: <AANLkTiksy2xSZYAhIYNFOHZxQ8JNWq9nVnximiT_zHB_ at mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinL0Au5EU73SiBRhmZXv7CZrIVNbqqDW8oKgtvQ at mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTilEW8QQYfHkf9vmhFpu36lZB8zLEO4EIC0VQTA8 at mail.gmail.com>
	<5468CF4DE0B74D4CBF1097F9822150AA@jill>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimXhn4F9pNFDJlha-mENvCkTv7iB8aWRYDBYvj7 at mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Gerry Quinn <gerryq at indigo.ie> wrote:

>
>
> I remain 'loyal to the ship' on this one.  One can certainly question
> whether the negation of a black hole that was deliberately put into the sun
> counts as a net benefit - but can we really defend the moribund future of
> Master Ash compared to the new life of Ushas, though indeed this new
> life must be born in cataclysm?
>

But on my side of the argument I have Ash's words about the majority of the
population having been evacuated before the ice death, in his future.
Whatever the benefits of Ushas, why did almost everybody have to die in
Sev's time line? And probably more to the point: why didn't Sev at least try
to make this happen - knowing as he did that it was possible?

>  It would, I think, be unfair to rely too much on the author's statements
> on his intention, but it seems to me that they support the conventional
> interpretation.  Severian is 'a Christian figure' - compare to Silk, who is
> 'a good man in a bad religion'.
>

I can't recall everything that Wolfe has said about this, but didn't he
actually say that Sev is a member of the mystical body of Christ? (Or was
that something that he said to somebody, in addition to the Sev-as-Christian
comment?) Anyway, I can't understand Sev being a Christian, which presumably
requires one to believe in Christ?

As to being part of the mystical body of Christ, I am totally unqualified to
judge what that actually means. But perhaps this sentence from the Mystici
Corporis Christi is relevant: "For the Church, the Bride of Christ, is one;
and yet so vast is the love of the divine Spouse that it embraces in His
Bride the whole human race without exception." (
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061943_mystici-corporis-christi_en.html
Ch96)

>  But here is an obvious question which should have an answer within the
> text: if your theory is correct, where in BotNS/UotNS is the counterpart of
> The Outsider?  And what Urthly presences/powers stand against the New Sun?
> Vodalus?  Who, Mr. Thallassocrat, is standing for what you say is Good?
>

That is indeed the big question. My answer is that LS/SS is a redemption of
the God-less world of BOTNS/UOTNS - in which neither side is "Good". I
believe Sev's life after meeting SilkHorn will be very different than his
career in BOTNS/UOTNS - as I've set out in posts here over the years. I
don't think anybody else has found this position very convincing, but I'm
sticking with it :)

>
> - Gerry Quinn
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20100709/27f4dc9e/attachment.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net