UotNS and how it screws with your head

David Stockhoff · 13 Jul 2010, 16:02 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:02:35 -0400
Subject: (urth) UotNS and how it screws with your head
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinHy3Aec9OA-UHwh1uw3BFusrKErPLPID7aXss8 at mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinHy3Aec9OA-UHwh1uw3BFusrKErPLPID7aXss8 at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C3C8E1B.7060501 at verizon.net>

That reminds me: I need a white fountain to go with the white obelisk in 
my front yard.

This is difficult to process, making as many problems as it solves. It 
may mean that all of time originates in this self-(pro)creation, because 
surely there can't be more than one such event or loop per universe.

It may conflict with the concept of the Increate as the only entity able 
to father himself. It may associate Severian with the Increate.

It may just be a hint that Severian fathered himself. But then did he do 
this with Catherine or did he do this with Apheta? or both? Is one 
fathering physical and the other mystical? And what about incest as the 
way to bring in a new universe, per the principles of alchemy? Is there 
a suggestion of masturbatory closed loops a la Fifth Head, or is a 
closed loop a way forward?

Cliff Judge wrote:
> The first time I read this book, I was overawed by it, but found it 
> confusing to the point where I didn't like it much. Second time 
> around, I find I enjoy it more, but it is clear that it is not quite 
> up to the standards of the main series. But maddening.
>
> So....for foreplay, Severian and Apheta talk about numinous matters, 
> and she spends awhile talking about how time flows however they want 
> it to in Yesod, past can become future, and the future ripples back to 
> the past.
>
> And then they engage in what a couple of Wolfe's characters call the 
> "warm congress" and Severian says, I entered Yesod, or rather, it 
> enclosed about me, yada yada, and then he describes his orgasm as this 
> terribly serious cosmic event, and talks about something that is 
> conceived from the union. Then he states that what was conceived was 
> himself.
>
> Now as a reader who has just decided that its pretty clear that Dorcas 
> is his grandmother, Ouen is his father, and btw I like the idea that 
> his mother is Catherine, of whom a khaibits is slain every year at the 
> Feast of Holy Katherine, there is something in my brain that really 
> WANTS to take the easy way out here and say, right what was conceived 
> was "himself" meaning the actual white fountain that will replenish 
> the sun of Urth.
>
> But part of me is also thinking....yeah there it is, Severian is his 
> own father.
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