lots of stuff

John Watkins · 13 Jul 2010, 16:25 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: john.watkins04 at gmail.com (John Watkins)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:25:12 -0400
Subject: (urth) lots of stuff
In-Reply-To: <4C3C8FA6.5090402 at verizon.net>
References: <SNT123-W3112BE6281E5290885301ACFB80 at phx.gbl>
	<4C3B7191.3030006 at io.com> <4C3B8003.1020501 at gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimLkd3umhxX484qMvEsNCwNwWRbW5N7_WLhr4Mw at mail.gmail.com>
	<4C3C7CA8.5040407 at verizon.net>
	<513AA304-0082-4C32-BBFD-A3B3A25D294B at liftingfaces.com>
	<4C3C8A25.7040304 at gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinIxi1NM4x3MJdmysjd_w0Apw2pk1NskcPDD9AG at mail.gmail.com>
	<4C3C8FA6.5090402 at verizon.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpbsMXlUw7t7gfZvAGVOX-GmQzvxbI8Pm5ORwT at mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:09 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

> But who's the archon of this universe? Inire, appropriately mysterious and
> aged as a Titan, or Tzadkiel, violator of all known laws of scale and
> appearance? Is one ruler below and the other ruler above?
>


Maybe it's as simple as this:  Inire is the archon of Urth and Tzadkiel is
the archon of Briah.

On the pure level of plot, I think we can conclude that Tzadkiel's agenda
and Inire's are pretty similar.  Tzadkiel wants Briah's human beings to
evolve into Hieros.  He doesn't care which line of humanity does it, and he
doesn't need them all to turn into Hieros--he just needs some Hieros.

Inire wants the humans on Urth to stick around.  Because of the black hole
in the sun, that requires propitiating Tzadkiel.  So his long-range goal
(what the good folks at TvTropes.org would call a "Xanatos gambit") is to
produce through the Autarchy a savior figure who will convince Tzadkiel that
Urth is worth keeping around.  He's advancing Tzadkiel's goals, although
maybe for his own reasons.  This raises two questions:

1)  Does Inire care about turning humans into Hieros?

2)  Are there Inire-esque figures on other human-populated planets?  Is
there a crooked old Hierodule winding his way to Green or Blue even as the
Short Sun ends?

I dunno.






>
> The Titans rebelled against Time. Hmm...
>
> John Watkins wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:45 AM, James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com <mailto:
>> crushtv at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>        It appears that Severian is, potentially, not the only one
>>        with parallels to Christ.
>>
>> Heh.
>>  Inire.
>>  Severian.
>>  Thecla.
>>  There's another trinity for you.  Quite literally the father who created
>> the Autarchy and brought it to its end, his (presumably figurative) son, the
>> scion of the father's ages of planning and manipulation (including possibly
>> genetic manipulation?) and the pretty-literal ghost.
>>  I kind of like the notion that, contra Witz, Severian is the logos of
>> Inire, not the Increate.
>>
>>    u+16b9
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Urth Mailing List
>>    To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
>>    Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net <http://www.urth.net/>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Urth Mailing List
>> To post, write urth at urth.net
>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 100713-0, 07/13/2010
>> Tested on: 7/13/2010 11:52:05 AM
>>
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20100713/09f2a12a/attachment.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net