Urth Net
UotNS and how it screws with your head
brunians at brunians.org · 13 Jul 2010, 18:38
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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:38:14 -0400 Subject: (urth) UotNS and how it screws with your head In-Reply-To: <4C3CB209.6010005 at verizon.net> References: <SNT123-W3648570337046E2ADD28E1CFB90 at phx.gbl> <4C3CA0F3.8010000 at verizon.net> <5ba541058b93270cb0cefc866d41f368.squirrel at brunians.org> <4C3CB209.6010005 at verizon.net> Message-ID: <bca443dfad1535a0c1425a3c5c5b88ab.squirrel at brunians.org> Many protestants use their religion in ways not incompatible with reality. Many is perhaps a strong word, but they do exist. That your father-in-law is one is not beyond the bounds of possibility. . > My father-in-law is a Protestant, of course. (broad wink) > > I'd turn him on to Wolfe but I fear the result. He might stop reading > altogether. > > brunians at brunians.org wrote: >> The World is as it is. >> >> Religion - real religion - acknowledges this. >> >> . >> >> >> >>> My father-in-law, who eschews SF because it lacks hope with a capital >>> (C)H(RIST), would agree with you. >>> >>> I disagree. As a Catholic acquaintance once said to me, "Catholicism is >>> not supposed to be easy." If you take it seriously, it acknowledges the >>> most horrifying pain of existence and tries to justify it. I respect >>> that. >>> >>> BotNS has a perpetual subtext of violence and injustice. You could >>> trace >>> every chapter and scene simply by the violence done or attempted by one >>> human being to/on another. There is a purpose to this subtext. >>> >>> Lee Berman wrote: >>> >>>> John Watkins: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I don't think so...I think the black hole in the Sun exists as a >>>>> white >>>>> fountain >>>>> in the lower universe (Abbadon?) It would follow that the white >>>>> fountain Severian >>>>> creates exists as a black hole in Yesod or some higher plane. There >>>>> may be an >>>>> incredible number oflayers of universes... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Nice post John. My thinking has leaned in the same direction, heavily >>>> influenced >>>> by the (surprisingly) hard SF, (shockingly) foresighted 1972 book, The >>>> Gods Themselves, >>>> by Asimov. I don't feel it is considered a very seminal work though it >>>> did win the Hugo >>>> and Nebula. Surely Wolfe read it? >>>> >>>> It paints a very similar picture of the universes leaking from higher >>>> energy to lower >>>> which might clarify things in BotNS. As you say, Severian's (and >>>> Apheta's?) creation >>>> was a White Fountain in Briah. But it was a black hole they created in >>>> Yesod >>>> (no snarky comments please). Was Yesod (or maybe Sol) left with a >>>> black >>>> hole that they >>>> will need to repair? >>>> >>>> We have heard the black hole in Urth's sun was created as a >>>> punishment. >>>> But could we >>>> infer that it (also) was created when a nastier version of Severian >>>> travelled to Briah >>>> to get a white fountain to bring back and heal the black hole for a >>>> nastier version of >>>> Urth in Abbadon? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Metaphorically (and maybe literally), I think Wolfe is making a point >>>>> about >>>>> grace...God, being the well that never goes dry, can give without >>>>> taking... et cetera. >>>>> These points would be lost, or their effectiveness reduced, if the >>>>> white fountain and >>>>> the black hole were one and the same. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Wolfe is usually portrayed as a devout Catholic but, given his >>>> writing, >>>> I have serious >>>> doubts whether he has the same view of grace and the "God Is Love" >>>> stuff >>>> that most >>>> Christians have or are supposed to have. He really seems to have a >>>> dark >>>> and pessimistic >>>> side which comes out in pretty much all his work. Where, in his work, >>>> is >>>> the shining, >>>> uncompromised redemption we must (as christians) eventually, somehow >>>> achieve? Is he >>>> saving that for his last novel maybe? >>>> >>>> In a way I hope so. But I doubt Gene Wolfe's worldview is likely to >>>> become more >>>> positive as he nears death. Tzadkiel, who is so much more spiritually >>>> advanced than >>>> Severian, is still infinitely far from the Increate. I suspect a soul >>>> will have to pass >>>> through an eternity of incarnations before becoming one with God, in >>>> the >>>> Wolfean cosmos. >>>> And that is dark, pessimistic and depressing. >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>> inbox. >>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Urth Mailing List >>>> To post, write urth at urth.net >>>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. >>>> Virus Database (VPS): 100713-0, 07/13/2010 >>>> Tested on: 7/13/2010 1:12:07 PM >>>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. >>>> http://www.avast.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Urth Mailing List >>> To post, write urth at urth.net >>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Urth Mailing List >> To post, write urth at urth.net >> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net >> >> >> --- >> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. >> Virus Database (VPS): 100713-0, 07/13/2010 >> Tested on: 7/13/2010 2:25:08 PM >> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. >> http://www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Urth Mailing List > To post, write urth at urth.net > Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net >
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