Fr Inire + Cumean + others (was: Re: Inire as a hierodule)

Jane Delawney · 16 Jul 2010, 23:40 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

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From: jane_delawney at sky.com (Jane Delawney)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:40:55 +0100
Subject: (urth) Fr Inire + Cumean + others (was: Re: Inire as a hierodule)
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W236606DA930C3EC8833C4BCFBC0 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W236606DA930C3EC8833C4BCFBC0 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4C40EE07.7020106 at sky.com>

Just a couple of quick thoughts.

On 16/07/10 15:34, Lee Berman wrote:
> I think it can matter a lot. Borski assumed Inire was a hierodule and consequently short-
> lived and consequently only able to move backwards in time and consquently an obedient
> servant of the hierogrammates, etc. He took his error (I believe it to be one
I do too, I don't see the evidence for it. Borski relies entirely too 
much on the alleged naming conventions IMO.
> , though
> Andre-Driussi doesn't) and ran so ridiculously far with it, he undercut much of the
> credibility of his Solar Labyrinth book IMHO.
>    
agreed.
> So, where does The Cumaean fit into the scheme of things? Borski casts her as sort of a
> Mother Inire, a paired, parallel but less important than Inire hierodule character.
> But she isn't tall and beautiful nor short-lived. Any others have thoughts on her?
>    
Regarding the Cumean, there seems to be an assumption (based primarily 
upon the vision of her as a many eyed serpent during Sev's first 
experience at the Stone Town) that she's an alien; that while the 
Witches regard her as one of their own she's not human but a 
representative (hierodule? Hierogrammate?) of the hieros upon Urth.

I'm inclined to disagree with this, invoking Occam's Razor; it's simply 
unnecessary.
Sev's vision is entirely in accordance with the Hindu/Buddhist cosmology 
Wolfe invokes in many places (manvantaras and all that) and represents a 
vision of the 'Long Body' of an 'occult' initate ie. in BOTNS terms, a 
witch. 'Long Body'? well, that would be the body of a human or other 
living being seen from a four-dimensional POV; from that POV your body, 
mine, everyone else's, would definitely seem many eyed and snake-like!

To elaborate: since Time is the fourth dimension, the 'body' appears as  
a snake-like form from the 'outside' as it were; from (perhaps) the 
'divine' point of view which Sev seems to achieve, momentarily, during 
this experience. 'Divine'? Well maybe that's a bit tendentious. 'Outside 
of the temporal universe' perhaps; Sev adverts to this point of view a 
few times, stating that every being that has ever lived is alive 
'somewhere / when', and also asserting strenuously that he believes his 
Autarchia, Valeria, is still alive ... *somewhere*. Yes she is; from one 
who can perceive directly, or imagine, the temporal universe from some 
place 'outside' time, she is alive indeed in her own segment of the 
four-dimensional world. It's learning to jump into and out of this world 
at the desired / destined points, that is the real trick; learning to 
navigate the Corridors of Time, in other words.
>
> Perhaps Ossipago is worth discussing here. Borski thinks he is Inire. I don't. I think he
> is one of the machines that humanity built which then created the hierogrammates. The phrase
> "deus ex machina" is hinted at toward the end of Citadel and I've always liked how Ossipago's
> role in the story fits both the literal and theatrical meaning of that phrase.
>    
I find I'm in disagreement not only with Borski, but with Andre-Driussi 
about the three known and named Hierodules. Both seem to assume that 
since Ossipago can be translated as 'bone grower', he, although 
basically a mechanism, is the nurse / guardian of both Famulimus and 
Barbatus. I think it makes far more sense in the context of the New Sun 
opus that all three names have some relevance to a role vs. Severian 
himself: Ossipago being the 'demigod' who oversees his growth from 
babyhood; Barbatus the one who sees him through puberty (Barbatus = name 
of minor Roman deity responsible for the sprouting of the first beard of 
the adolescent boy) and Famulimus the one who keeps him on the moral (as 
opposed to traditional) straight and narrow: the famulimus is the Roman 
minor deity responsible for a person's  reputation, and s/he is 
presumably rooting for Sev as he makes the very difficult decsion to go 
for basic good vs. evil morality rather than for guild tradition (which 
kind of turns good and evil on their heads in this context) as he grants 
mercy to Thecla at his own future's expense (he had every reason as he 
did what he did to expect that he  would be executed for his 'crime'; 
this is therefore a real sacrifice of self for the greater good).

don't know if any of this is of any interest, but I've been mulling over 
the statements of the various commentators on all of these questions and 
given the thread, this seemed a good place to comment.

Again forgive me please for modifying the header a little, I really 
really want to get my list posts sent back to me, and my ISP won't do it 
unless I start a 'new' thread.

regards

JD




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