On Pedophillia and Homosexuality

brunians at brunians.org · 22 Jul 2010, 03:08 · from 2010-July.txt.gz

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From: brunians at brunians.org (brunians at brunians.org)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:08:01 -0400
Subject: (urth) On Pedophillia and Homosexuality
In-Reply-To: <386718.25522.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <620951.93527.qm at web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<386718.25522.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29d33502f22842d3289d33ccce9ca7f4.squirrel at brunians.org>

Whatevar.

.


> From: Nicholas <nickjost at yahoo.com>
>
>>" don't see where you get this from.  Granted Baldanders is not shown as
>> having
>>any sexual interest in >women,
>
> Specifically, not in the endlessly desirable Jolenta.
>
>> and by default one might assume that such a character might (or might
>> not) be
>>gay.  But the
>>modified child in his bed hardly qualifies as a man."
>>
>
>>You  make two bad assumptions that the classic world didn't.
>
> You did say specifically that Baldanders liked the attentions of "men",
> not "men
> and boys".  And where should I have noticed that's what he liked?  Also,
> you
> said that Severian noticed and grokked that men are attracted to other
> males.
> Where did I miss that?  I remember he mentions some men who are impotent
> save
> with men like themselves.
>
>> The first is  that sexual preference is fixed. As
>>I pointed out this is a new (and  I think very wrong) idea.
>
> Whether it's right or wrong, isn't it in the Symposium?  Some of the
> two-backed
> beasts are male-female, some female-female, and some male-male?  And
> Severian
> seems to believe that at least some people's sexual preference is fixed.
>
>> Two, that the boys essential nature isn't  human and male.  What is he,
>> a
>>female mouse? A Greek
>> wouldn't  understand the fine difference you're driving at to protect
>> modern
>>sensibilities
>> (sensibilities trained by a halting assumption of  Christian ethics).
>
> Sure a Greek would understand it.  There's a reason for the word
> paiderastes (if
> I got that right), boy-lover, not man-lover.  And Severian says he doesn't
> believe Baldanders practiced pederasty with the overgrown boy.  As far as
> I can
> tell, you're assuming that people are sexually attracted to other people's
> essential nature, whatever that is.  I think age and other superficial
> features
> have a lot to do with it.  If A is attracted to B when B is thirty, it
> doesn't
> follow that A is attracted to B when B is three (or ninety).  Most people
> find
> secondary sexual characteristics attractive.  (Of course, Severian may
> have
> meant that Baldanders might have been waiting till the boy developed those
> characteristics.  It's easier to believe B could be attractive at both
> thirteen
> and thirty.)
>
>> What difference does it make when I sleep with a  slave that is three or
>>thirty?
> ...
>
> They're both rape, and I believe they're both evil, but I imagine it makes
> a
> difference to the victim.  And as I said above, it probably makes a
> difference
> to the slaveowner, too.
>
> I think you're right to call attention to the differences between ancient
> and
> modern beliefs, and to the possibility that the latest belief might not be
> the
> ultimate truth, and to the possibility that Wolfe didn't believe the
> latest
> belief of the time when he wrote BotNS, but I think you're taking things
> too
> far.
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
>
>
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