Boatman as Inire

Jack Smith · 06 Aug 2010, 20:00 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: jack.smith.1946 at gmail.com (Jack Smith)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:00:25 -0400
Subject: (urth) Boatman as Inire
In-Reply-To: <CE597321-6F93-4551-9C85-91434E66FC7F at liftingfaces.com>
References: <SNT123-W17B2D60FBAB9A2AE81714DCF910 at phx.gbl>
	<007f01cb359d$d11d7f60$49d34a0c@rclackey>
	<CE597321-6F93-4551-9C85-91434E66FC7F at liftingfaces.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinavfjGeeff5L-qFvnzACXYcUCZLVpP9+20XeQu at mail.gmail.com>

I think Wolfe provides all the evidence needed to conclude that Dorcas and
the old boatman are Severian's grandparents.

1.  The old boatman speaks of his dead wife "Cas" just before Dorcas is
resurrected (Shadow, XXII).
2.  The mysterious note found by Severian in the Inn of Lost Loves (Shadow,
XXV) refers to Dorcas as "my mother come again."  The note is later revealed
to have been written by Ouen, the waiter.
3.  Ouen, Severian learns, is his father.  Ouen has a locket with a picture
of his mother, which is a picture of Dorcas  (Citadel, XXXVII).   Ouen looks
like her, but the innkeeper points out that Ouen looks even more like
Severian (Citadel, XXXVII).

There are other pieces of evidence, too, but I think this is enough.



On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com> wrote:

> It is Lupine Gospel, however, that Dorcas and the boatman are Severian's
> paternal grandparents, yes?
>
> ...ryan
>
> On Aug 6, 2010, at 3:30 PM, "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> wrote:
>
> > Lee Berman wrote:
> >> Jeff Wilson's comment about Dorcas and the boatman brought this topic to
> >> mind. Rudesind as Inire has been discussed lately, but not the boatman I
> > think.
> >> It is recognized that a weakness in such a scenario involves the boatman
> > not really
> >> being dead or that there are multiple versions of Inire which have
> varying
> > lifespans.
> >
> > Yeah, those were among my objections years ago when you first brought
> this
> > up, and they still obtain.
> >
> > [snip]
> >> I think Severian's descriptions of Father Inire as always off stage, and
> > if on stage, in
> >> disguise, never revealed is, in some way, a sign of respect for the deep
> > instinct of the
> >> shape-changing sort of being that Father Inire is (respect also for
> being
> > his vizier and
> >> grandfather).
> >
> > You keep throwing out statements like that as if they were accepted
> Lupine
> > gospel: they are not. There is no textual evidence that Inire is either a
> > shape-changer or Sev's grandfather. You pile speculation upon speculation
> in
> > furtherance of one or another of your theories and/or some Grand Unified
> > Theory, no matter the cost to logic or the text. For example, you have
> > proposed that at least three male characters in the Urth Cycle (the old
> man
> > at Casdoe's cabin, the old leech and, IIRC, Ceryx) are really females,
> > despite there not being a shred of textual evidence to support the
> notion.
> > Will that be enough to make the text fit the theory?
> >
> > -Roy
> >
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-- 
Best wishes,
Jack
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