Urth Net

← back to the conversation

Boatman as Inire

Lee Berman · 09 Aug 2010, 13:43 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee Berman)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:43:31 -0400
Subject: (urth) Boatman as Inire
Message-ID: <SNT123-W245B60047ACB48B6071206CF940 at phx.gbl>



John Watkins- > I think you have this wrong.  Very wrong, in fact.  Briah is not the lower
>universe that the Hierogrammates escaped from.
 
So be it. We will have to disagree.
 
 
> Not "*must* be."  "*May* be."  The Hierogrammates are seeking to
>effectuate this future, and Severian apparently helps them to do so.  But it
>is not a necessary future, at least on Urth, as Master Ash confirms.
 
I hope this is not an intentional misunderstanding of my words for the sake of
argument. I say "must" because Master Ash winks out and Ushas and the Hierogrammates
exist. If we saw the Hierogrammates wink out and a Ragnarok Urth in Severian's 
time travels in UotNS, I'd say the reverse- averting Ushas was necessary for the creation 
of Ragnarok.
 
> There is also a trope of the "good" fallen angel--a higher being whose sin,
>as it were, is caring too much about the lowly humans it is charged with
>overseeing.
 
Oh I agree! I recently discussed this issue with someone...sorry I forget who it was.
Taking the example of Prometheus, the Olympians considered him evil. Humanity considered him
good. Take his cognate, Azazel/Tawsi Melek. Judeo-Christians consider him evil while the Yezidis
consider him good. Gabrus, the Celtic goat-god (cognate to Mercury) was a good guy for the
Western Europeans until the Christians from the east turned him into Satan.
 
Good fights against evil all through history; though which is which is a matter of opinion.
In the end it doesn't matter. Good and evil pagan gods and beliefs- all will be swept away as a
higher level of spirituality washes in to take their place. I think that's the message of BotNS. 		 	   		  

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net